Not that I agree personally with the policies of the US Libertarian party, why is it that we do not have a political party which represents the ideals of Liberalism in the classical sense? Do you think there would be demand for an Irish Libertarian party?
'The monster is in thine eye'
I think the PDs broadly meet that characterisation.
Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
The PD's fly under that flag alright but McDowell has not done anything liberal & Harney has managed Health like a good Socialist.
cYp
"Yawn , am I alive yet ?"
double post
Actual morality is doing what is right regardless of what you're told. Religious morality is doing what you're told, regardless of if it's right.
Because Libertarianism is the spawn of satan perhaps?
Imagine Ireland without even the limited corporate regulation we have at the moment?
Imagine having to pay individual service charges for fire protection?
primary and secondary education?
Imagine having no regulations on advertising or media?
tolls on every stretch or road?
Youd have to pay to walk through the local park, or to have a picnic on a beach
Imagine slavery in Ireland.
That is libertarianism.
Actual morality is doing what is right regardless of what you're told. Religious morality is doing what you're told, regardless of if it's right.
The PD involvement in govt has helped ensure the overall direction of economic policy under the govt has leaned in the liberal direction i.e. privatisation, big cuts in taxation. Remember that in Term 1 the PDs were absolutely necessary to FF to cling onto power so that gave them a lot of leverage outside of the PD portfolios. I agree that ideologically they are not 100% pure on liberalism e.g. risk-equalisation, but would add that they still most closely fit the liberatarian category among parties in the Dail. Harney's support for incentives for private-hospitals counterbalances the statist direction of risk-equalisation for health-insurance. Furthermore, classical liberalism was also about secularism, and Liz O'Donnell's calls for curtailment of the remaining influence of the Catholic Church in politics can be seen in that vein.
The PD's fly under that flag alright but McDowell has not done anything liberal & Harney has managed Health like a good Socialist.
cYp
How exactly? What is so socialist about what she has done?Harney has managed Health like a good Socialist.
As was Health was a large proportion of our tax take, spending on health has increased under Harney, no signs of cost cutting etc. She has increased the central power & spending.
cYp
"Yawn , am I alive yet ?"
Liz O'Donnell could've made that call as easily from the opposition benches, indeed she often speaks as though on them. What liberalising legislation have the PD's directly implemented ? Harney & McDowell go toghther to ban mushies...Furthermore, classical liberalism was also about secularism, and Liz O'Donnell's calls for curtailment of the remaining influence of the Catholic Church in politics can be seen in that vein.
The PD's fly under that flag alright but McDowell has not done anything liberal & Harney has managed Health like a good Socialist.
cYp
cYp
"Yawn , am I alive yet ?"
I would prefer to call it statism but Socialists also believe in preferential treatment for state-companies/bodies. As such, the risk-equalisation - supported by Labour - that she introduced whereby the state-owned VHI is subsidised by incoming competitors from the private-sector smacks of statism and I think cyberianpan is making an analogy between statism and socialism. However, the broad thrust of PD policy is liberalism - especially in economic policy - and so I wouldn't call them a Socialist party at all.
The problem is that much of the ministerial portfolios relating to PD policy are in the hands of FF ministers which may or may not share their ideology. In Term 1 they had an ally in McCreevy who was on the verge of joining what became the PDs in the 80's according to the book "Breaking the Mould" which I am currently reading. There is little real doubt that while the PDs did not occupy the Dept.of Finance in Term 1, the huge tax cuts would not have happened without them in govt in 1997-02. FF-PD were a minority Coalition govt propped up by Independents, and Harney could have collapsed the govt at any time. So you are oversimplifying to judge the ideology of the PDs based on what they themselves did.Liz O'Donnell could've made that call as easily from the opposition benches, indeed she often speaks as though on them. What liberalising legislation have the PD's directly implemented ? Harney & McDowell go toghther to ban mushies...
McDowell's attempts to introduce cafe-bar licenses are an example of PD ministers attempting to implement liberalisation but it being shot down by the FF publican-lobby. But this is a Coalition govt and no one party will always get its way. Nonetheless it does confirm - together with the aforementioned policies - that the broad thrust of PD policy is liberatarian.
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