Ireland: From Working Democracy to Banana Republic - What started the demise?

[TrueBlue forever]

When did the demise of Ireland from a working democracy into a banana republic begin?

By that I mean bad planning decisions, corrupt payments, money for phone licences, etc. etc.

My housemates and I were discussing this issue last night and one claimed that he felt that it began with the appointment of Bertie Ahern as Minister of Finance.

I argued that corruption and bribes really came to the fore with George Colley losing the leadership vote in Fianna Fail - this allowed Charlie to carry on his well publicised exploits and led to the election of Bertie as party leader.

The third guy however argued that this all began, not with FF but with the fact that Ireland, having been managed as a colony meant that a - what he termed - healthy disrespect for authority - came about. Therefore if one could "get one over" the law that this was respected and silently celebrated.

He claimed that this disrespect (no longer healthy since we were now independent) has and still exists to this day hence when people talk of Charlie, Ray, Bertie, etc. etc. everyone says they were wrong while at the same time nearly respecting the guy for doing it and apparently getting away with it.

We all agreed however that Fianna Fail, in recent years, have become associated with it mainly due to the fact that they have been in power the majority of time and hence the most influential and hence the most attractive to a potential bribee and that potentially this could have happened any party who were in power long enough- i.e. power corrupts.

Anyway I am just putting the question out there to see what other people believe was the "tipping point" which brought us to our present position...

[OceanFrog]

Fianna Fail.

End of.

[Garibaldy]

Corruption and political favours have been part and parcel of the southern state since its foundation.

[DerekOwens]

I'm not sure we can really argue that Ireland has ever been a properly functioning democracy - if such a term exists. I can think of several examples in just about every decade where a member (or members) of the government were caught up in something decidedly iffy, our planning laws were a corrupt mess long before Haughey came on the scene, and crony capitalism has long been an unpleasant part of our economic mix.

I'd share the view of your third friend.

[locke]

Have a read up on the abolition of Dublin and Cork Corporations in 1924.

There is nothing new about what we've seen recently; it's always been a weakness.

[TrueBlue forever]

Have a read up on the abolition of Dublin and Cork Corporations in 1924.

There is nothing new about what we've seen recently; it's always been a weakness.

Thank you. Will do. Any good suggestions for books?

[Digout]

It started with Dev, when he went to the states to raise money for the republic and pocketed some of the money, and used the rest to setup the Irish Press. The company remained in the ownership of the Dev family.

[zakalwe1]

the arms trial.

the day honest and decent FF people lost control of the party and the scum ruled from there onwards.

[locke]

Thank you. Will do. Any good suggestions for books?

There's a chapter here about the situation in Cork Corporation

1% of the rates being spent employing the relatives of one of the councillors. A councillor getting a substantial contract awarded to himself etc.

[Tommy Tayto]

Fianna Fail.

End of.

Idiotic post. As I have pointed out before, just because FF bashing is now in fashion, it doesn't mean that they are actually responsible for everything bad in this country. But as usual, the peasant rent a mob seek a quick answer when it comes to blame. Try to engage brain before coming out with such simpleton statements.
The people are more to blame than any party for their cowardice, gombeenism, and apathy, so stop trying to pin it on an easy scapegoat. We are ALL responsible for what is going on right now. And it is we who are responsible for getting ourselves out of it.