Are unionist and irish cultures mutually exclusive?

[rf]

It has been said in the past that the only way to bring peace to ireland is to make everyone irish. following the traditional definition of what it is to be irish that would mean that everyone would have to become a catholic gael. some how i doubt that either recent immigrants or unionists would accept such.
However ireland has rapidly changed with the catholic churches influence on the state decreased if not totally gone and ireland has become more multicultural. could this country in the event of a united ireland accept a large number of people who see themselves as british?
could the majority accept the 12th as a national holiday?
could you all accept parades and union jacks?
A large amount of both cultures has been built out of beating the other side and particularly in NI there is a deeply ingrained hatered of the other side. So what i am really trying to ask is[color=darkblue] can the irish people be proud to be irish whilst being proud of there british heritage without betraying either.? [/color]personally i am proud to be irish but equally i am proud of my british links.

[White Horse]

It has been said in the past that the only way to bring peace to ireland is to make everyone irish. following the traditional definition of what it is to be irish that would mean that everyone would have to become a catholic gael. some how i doubt that either recent immigrants or unionists would accept such.
However ireland has rapidly changed with the catholic churches influence on the state decreased if not totally gone and ireland has become more multicultural. could this country in the event of a united ireland accept a large number of people who see themselves as british?
could the majority accept the 12th as a national holiday?
could you all accept parades and union jacks?
A large amount of both cultures has been built out of beating the other side and particularly in NI there is a deeply ingrained hatered of the other side. So what i am really trying to ask is[color=darkblue] can the irish people be proud to be irish whilst being proud of there british heritage without betraying either.? [/color]personally i am proud to be irish but equally i am proud of my british links.

I beieve that unity would involve expanding the definition of Irishness to include Britishness.

However, at the moment Irishness is defined by a "Gaelic" identity that see Britain as foreign.

It would be very difficult to change as it has built up over the last 100 years.

[KeithM]

It has been said in the past that the only way to bring peace to ireland is to make everyone irish. following the traditional definition of what it is to be irish that would mean that everyone would have to become a catholic gael. some how i doubt that either recent immigrants or unionists would accept such.
However ireland has rapidly changed with the catholic churches influence on the state decreased if not totally gone and ireland has become more multicultural. could this country in the event of a united ireland accept a large number of people who see themselves as british?
could the majority accept the 12th as a national holiday?
could you all accept parades and union jacks?
A large amount of both cultures has been built out of beating the other side and particularly in NI there is a deeply ingrained hatered of the other side. So what i am really trying to ask is[color=darkblue] can the irish people be proud to be irish whilst being proud of there british heritage without betraying either.? [/color]personally i am proud to be irish but equally i am proud of my british links.

You have to remember that your defition of Irishness is a relativly new construct. After the IFS left the UK, politicans on all sides in this country tried to emphasise what set Ireland apart from our neighbours. This emphasised things like religeon (the special position of the Catholic church in the constitution and more besides), the language (which for decades had to be written in a arcane script), sports, music etc. etc.

Before that and dated back to the time of the Normans ("more Irish than te Irish themselves") "Irishness had a far more inclusive definition covering people of all religeons and none and English speakers and Gaelic speakers (don't forget that some of out finest Irish writers worked in English) were considered to be equally Irish as were monarchists and republicans.

If there has been an attempt to make unionism and "Irishness" mutually exclusive, all it's done is to even further alienate unionists from this state and it's another reason why we won't see a "united Ireland".

[Rapisco]

I beieve that unity would involve expanding the definition of Irishness to include Britishness.

However, at the moment Irishness is defined by a "Gaelic" identity that see Britain as foreign.

It would be very difficult to change as it has built up over the last 100 years.

This is a very valid point whitehorse. I was just discussing it last night with a few friends.

My thoughts on the issue were not well recieved by some nationalists present!!

[Thar an Phail]

So what i am really trying to ask is[color=darkblue] can the irish people be proud to be irish whilst being proud of there british heritage without betraying either.? [/color]personally i am proud to be irish but equally i am proud of my british links.

An interesting question, and one relevant to me personally. But in reverse. I am proud to be English but equally I am proud of my Irish links and heritage.

If you are involved in politics, like I am, it can be a bit difficult. I am a member of a unionist political party yet my veiws on the 6 Counties are Republican.

[jjacollins]

The answer to your question is that Unionism is the political enemy of all things Irish. It exists as an opposite of what it means to be Irish.

But yes in a United Ireland, a large British community can be accomodated as long as they respect the Irish Government and state laws and such, just as other nations citizens do.

I have spoken to one of the Governments advisors on the issue of what would happen to the 12th of July in a United Ireland and he sais that it would certainly become a national day of commeration. We already have a national day of commemeration in july, it will be simply moved and become a proper state occassion, where all who have doed in wars will be commemorated. This will take the orange taste out of the day and allow the rest of us the ability to take pride in the date.

[KeithM]

The answer to your question is that Unionism is the political enemy of all things Irish. It exists as an opposite of what it means to be Irish.

But yes in a United Ireland, a large British community can be accomodated as long as they respect the Irish Government and state laws and such, just as other nations citizens do.

I have spoken to one of the Governments advisors on the issue of what would happen to the 12th of July in a United Ireland and he sais that it would certainly become a national day of commeration. We already have a national day of commemeration in july, it will be simply moved and become a proper state occassion, where all who have doed in wars will be commemorated. This will take the orange taste out of the day and allow the rest of us the ability to take pride in the date.

That'll make all the difference for unionists, suddenly they're flocking to wards the idea of a "united Ireland".

Seriously, I have long been an advocate of making July 12th a full public holiday in this country (even if only to pay lip service to the orange on our flag) and March 17th should become a full public holiday in NI.

[farnaby]

So what i am really trying to ask is[color=darkblue] can the irish people be proud to be irish whilst being proud of there british heritage without betraying either.? [/color]personally i am proud to be irish but equally i am proud of my british links.

Had the same questions in my mind going around St Canice's cathedral in Kilkenny recently - i may as well have been in an English church for all the buried gentry, English names on gravestones and odes to fallen heroes in imperial wars. I don't think we will ever be comfortable with Irish participation in empire and British wars, and those things are strong elements of British culture.

[factual]

It has been said in the past that the only way to bring peace to ireland is to make everyone irish. following the traditional definition of what it is to be irish that would mean that everyone would have to become a catholic gael. some how i doubt that either recent immigrants or unionists would accept such.
However ireland has rapidly changed with the catholic churches influence on the state decreased if not totally gone and ireland has become more multicultural. could this country in the event of a united ireland accept a large number of people who see themselves as british?
could the majority accept the 12th as a national holiday?
could you all accept parades and union jacks?
A large amount of both cultures has been built out of beating the other side and particularly in NI there is a deeply ingrained hatered of the other side. So what i am really trying to ask is[color=darkblue] can the irish people be proud to be irish whilst being proud of there british heritage without betraying either.? [/color]personally i am proud to be irish but equally i am proud of my british links.

Sinn Fein support an Ireland of Equals if you hadn't noticed

[rf]

Sinn Fein support an Ireland of Equals if you hadn't noticed [/quote]

you must be joking. one of the reasons i would fear a UI is that SF would be made heros and probably enter government where they would start a program of irradicating everything british from this island. the only way i would accept a UI is if a respectable party was responsible for its creation