'They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish'

[seabhac siulach]

On March 4, 1933, newly elected U.S. president Franklin D. Roosevelt made the following points, regarding the 1930s depression, in his inaugural speech:

[they are oddly relevant to our very own depression of 2009]

"Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition.

Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence. They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers. They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.

The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow men."

In this speech, Roosevelt makes issue of the importance of vision, of something more important than 'mere monetary profit', of the idea that there are things more important than the economy. Indeed, he appears to be suggesting that a country is not just an economy, run for the benefits of mere 'money changers' but something where noble 'social values' should be applied. How does this relate to the Ireland of today?

Can we suggest that the failure of Ireland is precisely the failure of vision, the failure of seeing anything beyond 'mere monetary profit', where everything is held hostage to the diktats of the market and the grey demands of dismal 'scientists', those economists whose 'vision' extends no further than their dry columns of numbers? Indeed, faced by the 'failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money', much as Roosevelt described. But, where is the vision for Ireland? Is Ireland merely an economy, devoid of a social context?

Why is this relevant? Well, recent statistical reports indicate that Ireland has radically changed recently, in terms of its social makeup, and is likely to change even more in the future. For example, from a recent CSO report (CSO - News and Events : Press Release Children and Young People in Ireland 2008), we can see that the proportion of those classed as ethnically Irish accounts for only 85.1% of the population aged 0-4 years and 92.3% of the 15-19 years age group in 2006. In contrast people with black ethnicity accounted for 3.4% of persons aged 0-4 years but only 0.7% of persons aged 15-19 years. In addition, a ESRI report (http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publica...4035/RS008.pdf , Department of Education & Science - - Press Room) indicates that 10% of some primary schools have more than a fifth of pupils who are foreign born and in 2% of schools half of the pupils are foreign born. So, it is clear from these statistics that large social (and ethnic) changes are occurring in Ireland (particularly in the larger towns/cities), which are likely to become more evident as the children in these reports age. This is all okay. What is not okay, in my opinion, is there has been no debate on this, no comment on how this may change the whole idea of Ireland in the future. Basically, no vision of a future Ireland.

Now, this is not a thread about racism (so no jumping to conclusions!), but a thread about the need for a new vision for Ireland. The large percentages of non-ethnic workers in Ireland is a direct consequence of Ireland being run merely as an economy, where large numbers of immigrants were encouraged to move here to feed the demands of employers. So, the reality, of course, is that immigrants now make up a sizeable percentage of our population. This is no bad thing. However, the question is, what type of Ireland is being created by these large population changes? It is obvious that many immigrants do not see Ireland as 'native' inhabitants would. For example, they largely would have no (or little) interest in its history or language, etc. And, even if they did, their very presence changes these things, makes the idea of restoring the Gaelic language, perhaps, ludicrous, etc.

In my view, there is a now pressing and urgent need to 're-imagine' Ireland, in light of the present economic and social changes, to try to come to a conclusion about what Ireland now means and where we want it to go. To stumble on as we are does not seem sufficient. For example, every year the 26 county state honours those who died in 1916. Many of those who died in 1916 (and those who fought between 1919-1923) wanted an 'Ireland that was no just free but Gaelic as well and not just Gaelic but free as well'. What do these sentiments mean to the foreign born population of Ireland, considering most of them are not Gaelic and struggle just to speak English in many cases? Are the ideals of 1916 still relevant or is there a need to now re-imagine an Ireland that will be much changed in the future (if the statistics on births and school population can be trusted)? I think there is. As Roosevelt said, 'when there is no vision the people perish'. Where is this vision from the political parties (our 'leaders'), where their vision of an Ireland in the future, separate from a dry economic vision based solely on growth?

The failure in Ireland at the moment is not merely one of economics, it is also one of a failure of vision (personified perhaps by the last Taoiseach, Ahern) where there is no forward planning of a social/political/economic nature. If a people perishes by a lack of vision, then Ireland and its people is dying...and the need for a new vision becomes urgent...

[sauntersplash]

I'm not so sure that most people are looking for 'vision' in a politician these days. The role has become closer to that of a bank manager than ideological leader.

Economics is the dominant religion, the only vision that is called for is financial prudence.

[Oblivion]

...it is also one of a failure of vision (personified perhaps by the last Taoiseach, Ahern) where there is no forward planning of a social/political/economic nature.

Wrong. They know exactly what they're doing. Just as the now-bankrupt, banana state of California knew exactly what is was doing by importing a 3rd world underclass of cheap labour; usurping the indigenous population at every turn, in favour of the "enrichment" that immigrants bring to big business. The government elects a new public, replenishing "desirable" voting stock, East Germany style.

And if the indigenous population should protest against their engineered demise? All the better.

“I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.” Jay Gould.

[seabhac siulach]

I'm not so sure that most people are looking for 'vision' in a politician these days. The role has become closer to that of a bank manager than ideological leader.

Economics is the dominant religion, the only vision that is called for is financial prudence.

Yes, but man can not 'live on bread alone'...
Financial prudence is necessary, but there must equally be an indication of where all this economic growth (or lack of it!) is heading. What, in the end, is the point of Ireland, of its growth? If it is merely an economic entity, then why have independence at all? We might better be a mere adjunct of the IMF and be done with it...

Surely a well run economy is essential precisely so that a vision of a preferred Ireland (determined by its people) is created. But what is this preferred Ireland? Is it still the one articulated by the leaders of 1916 (even though the social/economic pillars of Ireland have changed so much)? Where is the debate on this?

Stumbling into the future is hardly sufficient, we have been doing too much of that recently and look where it has led us...
The 'leadership' of Ahern and Cowen starkly illustrates the cost of a lack of vision, with the present economic (and burgeoning social) problems.

[The OD]

I'm not so sure that most people are looking for 'vision' in a politician these days. The role has become closer to that of a bank manager than ideological leader.

Sadly, we have been operating with a payroll clerk, posing as a qualified accountant as Taoiseach for several years anyway.

Economics is the dominant religion, the only vision that is called for is financial prudence.

People like Ms. Harney are of the belief that money is a panacea - sadly, we are still not at the stage where it can readily buy one a new heart, as she will sadly find out soon enough - I am not making a personal attack on her, but she has obvious health issues and no amount of money will be able to help beyond a certain stage.

[seabhac siulach]

Wrong. They know exactly what they're doing. Just as the now-bankrupt, banana state of California knew exactly what is was doing by importing a 3rd world underclass of cheap labour; usurping the indigenous population at every turn, in favour of the "enrichment" that immigrants bring to big business. The government elects a new public, replenishing "desirable" voting stock, East Germany style.

And if the indigenous population should protest against their engineered demise? All the better.

“I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.” Jay Gould.

That is an interesting, if gloomy, view. However, if that was the case, would not the parties have spent more time 'grooming' the immigrants to vote for them in the recent elections? Lots of attention, special leaflets, etc. I did not see too much of that. In fact, the evidence would point to the fact that immigrants as a group did not vote much...

If I was sure there was the level of sophistication present, as you allege, then I might be somewhat reassured that there was, at least, some hand (no matter how malign) at the tiller...some intelligence behind what appear to be government policies made up on the run...
I personally see no master plan at work, beyond a mismanaged economic policy, one that favoured construction (with its resultant demand for cheap immigrant labour) above all else.

Fianna Fail means (in one interpretation) 'the soldiers of destiny'...what 'destiny' or vision are they now 'soldiering' for? To make their business buddies rich (and these days, solvent)?
What else?

[Libero]

It is a tremendous speech and very, very relevant to Ireland in 2009.

All we're missing, depressingly, is a Roosevelt.

[sauntersplash]

It is a tremendous speech and very, very relevant to Ireland in 2009.

All we're missing, depressingly, is a Roosevelt.

The days of 'great speeches' making any difference to anything are gone, if they were ever really here.

Obama isn't exactly turning the world on its head is he?

"Yes we can!"

????

Can we?

[Libero]

The days of 'great speeches' making any difference to anything are gone, if they were ever really here.

Obama isn't exactly turning the world on its head is he?

"Yes we can!"

????

Can we?

Are you saying that it makes no difference whether austerity measures are promoted with an inarticulate grunt or, on the other hand, by a leader who passionately and convincingly calls the people together in a common effort for the survival of the nation?

[seabhac siulach]

It is a tremendous speech and very, very relevant to Ireland in 2009.

All we're missing, depressingly, is a Roosevelt.

I live in hope that this country (or perhaps this site!) will eventually produce just such a 'Roosevelt' (hopefully with less of the Machiavellian traits of his seen during the Second World War, e.g., Pearl Harbour, Poland in 1944 (Warsaw uprising), etc.).

My OP was less, however, about Roosevelt himself and more about the lack of vision seen in Ireland today. I was hoping, forlornly, I imagine, that someone would come on here and discuss their views on the future direction of Ireland, their views on the necessary re-imagining of Ireland...
Are my views on this only my own, or do others agree that more than an economic or political restructuring is necessary? In my opinion, what is necessary is a complete reinterpretation of the nature of Irishness itself in light of the profound social changes that have taken place, and are taking place, in this country.