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Thread: Ireland and Peak Oil

  1. #1
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    Ireland and Peak Oil

    Minister Noel Dempsey recently responded to a request to outline the Irish government's thoughts on the subject of Peak Oil. This is ahead of the ever so long awaited Energy Green Paper, Ireland's equivalent of the UK energy review.

    The Minister does actually admit that oil is a finite resource (which I suppose is some sort of small step) but says that there are a wide range of estimates, up to beyond 2030, when Peak Oil may occur. However he assures me that, anyway, whenever peak oil occurs it will result in no immediate run down in supplies but lead to more efficient methods of extraction likely to lead to some equilibrium in supply and demand.

    So you will be glad to hear there is no problem there and we have nothing to get concerned about!

    He does recognise that high prices and the certainty that oil is a finite resource presents difficulties, particularly for transport but expects a global response in terms of alternative fuel vehicles.

    He admits that planning for the possible effects oil peaking is a difficult problem for all countries but if intervention measures are initiated too early they may turn out to be premature and counter productive.

    Well there is no chance of us making that silly mistake! Sure aren't we leading the way in Europe when it comes to delaying and procrastinating over anything substantive to do with renewable energy or energy efficiency.

    In terms of alternative fuels, he estimates that 16 million litres of bio-fuels will be placed on the Irish transport market by 2007 and we will reach over 2% market penetration of bio fuels by 2008. How much of this is to be domestically produced and how much imported is not made clear.

    This, apparently very impressively large, 2007 figure still only represents a totally insignificant and token 0.2% of our current oil use. To then increase, even this minute amount, 10 fold in one year is frankly just not credible by ramping up domestic production. Even if it could be achieved we would still remain 98% oil import dependent at our current extravagant consumption levels.

    He also mentions the 2005 EC Energy Green Paper “Doing more with less” which he says the government broadly supports and strongly believes that action can achieve positive long term outcomes.

    If only, even strong, belief in action could achieve anything when we are all going to have to do much,much less with much much less.

    Don't need a Weatherman

    It can scarcely have escaped anyone's notice that this has been by and large a very dry and hot summer following another dry winter. My own little micro willow plantation has made little growth this year and the leaves are prematurely yellowing and falling off. Yields of early potatoes are well down and prices up due to a severe lack of rain across the country and the acres of grass grown all around here for cattle grazing, silage and hay making are making slow headway.

    If this is a climate trend rather a weather blip, as seems increasingly likely, then it has very serious consequences not just for potential bio-fuel prospects but for food production as well.

    Conclusion

    Substituting renewable energy and energy efficiency for significant millions of tons of oil is not an easy task accomplished cheaply and quickly. Countries that have made significant progress in doing this and developing the skills base to support it, are now much better placed to face an uncertain energy future. They have only managed it as a result of enormous real commitment, investment and sustained hard work over long time spans and with access to cheap fossil fuels. Countries like Ireland which have made little or largely ineffectual efforts in this direction are in an increasingly precarious position which is showing little real sign yet of even being acknowledged or of having much prospect of improving significantly in the foreseeable future.

    Bio-fuel does has the potential to make small and valuable local transport fuel contributions but not on anything near the scale of our current extravagant fossil fuel use. Creating an impression, or letting an impression take hold in the public mind that it can, is highly disingenuous and irresponsible to say the least.

    The physical impossibility, not to mention environmental undesirability, of trying to substitute more than a small percentage of current energy use with bio fuel crops etc, seems to be the very large pink elephant in the living room that many are still very studiously trying to ignore.
    We got huge cans, huge buckets of worms, warehouses full of crates, full of buckets of worms. Enron Manager

  2. #2
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    Re: Ireland and Peak Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by cute hoor
    Minister Noel Dempsey recently responded to a request to outline the Irish government's thoughts on the subject of Peak Oil. This is ahead of the ever so long awaited Energy Green Paper, Ireland's equivalent of the UK energy review.

    The Minister does actually admit that oil is a finite resource (which I suppose is some sort of small step) but says that there are a wide range of estimates, up to beyond 2030, when Peak Oil may occur. However he assures me that, anyway, whenever peak oil occurs it will result in no immediate run down in supplies but lead to more efficient methods of extraction likely to lead to some equilibrium in supply and demand.

    So you will be glad to hear there is no problem there and we have nothing to get concerned about!

    He does recognise that high prices and the certainty that oil is a finite resource presents difficulties, particularly for transport but expects a global response in terms of alternative fuel vehicles.

    He admits that planning for the possible effects oil peaking is a difficult problem for all countries but if intervention measures are initiated too early they may turn out to be premature and counter productive.

    Well there is no chance of us making that silly mistake! Sure aren't we leading the way in Europe when it comes to delaying and procrastinating over anything substantive to do with renewable energy or energy efficiency.

    In terms of alternative fuels, he estimates that 16 million litres of bio-fuels will be placed on the Irish transport market by 2007 and we will reach over 2% market penetration of bio fuels by 2008. How much of this is to be domestically produced and how much imported is not made clear.

    This, apparently very impressively large, 2007 figure still only represents a totally insignificant and token 0.2% of our current oil use. To then increase, even this minute amount, 10 fold in one year is frankly just not credible by ramping up domestic production. Even if it could be achieved we would still remain 98% oil import dependent at our current extravagant consumption levels.

    He also mentions the 2005 EC Energy Green Paper “Doing more with less” which he says the government broadly supports and strongly believes that action can achieve positive long term outcomes.

    If only, even strong, belief in action could achieve anything when we are all going to have to do much,much less with much much less.

    Don't need a Weatherman

    It can scarcely have escaped anyone's notice that this has been by and large a very dry and hot summer following another dry winter. My own little micro willow plantation has made little growth this year and the leaves are prematurely yellowing and falling off. Yields of early potatoes are well down and prices up due to a severe lack of rain across the country and the acres of grass grown all around here for cattle grazing, silage and hay making are making slow headway.

    If this is a climate trend rather a weather blip, as seems increasingly likely, then it has very serious consequences not just for potential bio-fuel prospects but for food production as well.

    Conclusion

    Substituting renewable energy and energy efficiency for significant millions of tons of oil is not an easy task accomplished cheaply and quickly. Countries that have made significant progress in doing this and developing the skills base to support it, are now much better placed to face an uncertain energy future. They have only managed it as a result of enormous real commitment, investment and sustained hard work over long time spans and with access to cheap fossil fuels. Countries like Ireland which have made little or largely ineffectual efforts in this direction are in an increasingly precarious position which is showing little real sign yet of even being acknowledged or of having much prospect of improving significantly in the foreseeable future.

    Bio-fuel does has the potential to make small and valuable local transport fuel contributions but not on anything near the scale of our current extravagant fossil fuel use. Creating an impression, or letting an impression take hold in the public mind that it can, is highly disingenuous and irresponsible to say the least.

    The physical impossibility, not to mention environmental undesirability, of trying to substitute more than a small percentage of current energy use with bio fuel crops etc, seems to be the very large pink elephant in the living room that many are still very studiously trying to ignore.

    So other then
    1. Oil bad
    2. Oil vanishing
    3. Bio mass not desirable

    Any suggestions that are actually of any practical value?

  3. #3
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    Put some major thought into what we are going to do

    Sell your car

    Buy a bike

    Grow your own food

    Collect rain water

    And what contructive ideas do ye have?

    CH :
    We got huge cans, huge buckets of worms, warehouses full of crates, full of buckets of worms. Enron Manager

  4. #4
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    For a start, do away the notion of 'alternative energy'. It's all simply energy. Building a wind turbine provides more energy. Running your lights utilising a river is more energy. Getting rid of your car is commendable but means zilch given that world demand for energy is increasing.

    Unless global energy demands are reduced, you're is pishing into the wind. While fossil fuels actually exist they will be used - and used at the rate that shareholders demand.

    For instance, the Corrib gas, when extracted, will be gone in 15 years. North sea oil and gas - gone in an incredibly short space of time. Oil and gas - gone in a blip in humankind's lifetime, let alone the lifetime of the earth.

    The only possible answer to our 'fossil fuel crisis' - that is, the only answer that the human species is bent on providing for itself - is to use it all up. If it kills that and other species through massive climate change in the process, that's nature for you. (Let's just hope that there are sufficient archaeological remnants for the next intelligent species dominating the earth to learn what happened.)

    'Green' ideology will in the meantime inevitably augment some of the current dollar ideology but, cute hoor, as you yourself have pointed out in you post about potatoes and oil, it will be way too little and way too late.
    We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when creating them

  5. #5
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    A BBC story reports that Shell's net profit of 4.9 billion euro in the three months to 30 June 2006 were 'hit' by hurricanes and Nigeria.

    Diddums...
    We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when creating them

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cute hoor
    Put some major thought into what we are going to do

    Sell your car

    Buy a bike

    Grow your own food

    Collect rain water

    And what contructive ideas do ye have?

    CH :
    Or just not sell your car and convert it to consume Reap Seed Oil instead, which costs a little to install but is cheaper in the long run. Also considering oil keeps going up in price and Reap Seed Oil doesn't (as far as I'm aware), you're laughing. This is also a great boost for Irish Agriculture.
    Caoimhain

    "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then, you are a comrade of mine".
    Ché Guevara

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by caoimhain
    Or just not sell your car and convert it to consume Reap Seed Oil instead, which costs a little to install but is cheaper in the long run. Also considering oil keeps going up in price and Reap Seed Oil doesn't (as far as I'm aware), you're laughing. This is also a great boost for Irish Agriculture.
    Great.

    And each person doing so shifts the 'peak' in peak oil further into the future by about a zillionth of a second, if peak has not already been reached.

    Fossil-based oils will be burnt; climate change is happening and will get worse.

    There is not enough land to power personal transport by rape seed oil.
    We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when creating them

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by david
    Great.
    And each person doing so shifts the 'peak' in peak oil further into the future by about a zillionth of a second, if peak has not already been reached.
    Fossil-based oils will be burnt; climate change is happening and will get worse.
    There is not enough land to power personal transport by rape seed oil.
    Ehhh..... just a suggestion... I didn't think it through okay!
    Caoimhain

    "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then, you are a comrade of mine".
    Ché Guevara

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by caoimhain
    Quote Originally Posted by david
    Great.
    And each person doing so shifts the 'peak' in peak oil further into the future by about a zillionth of a second, if peak has not already been reached.
    Fossil-based oils will be burnt; climate change is happening and will get worse.
    There is not enough land to power personal transport by rape seed oil.
    Ehhh..... just a suggestion... I didn't think it through okay! :oops:
    No, do it, go ahead, don't take my curmugeonly manner personally.

    It's just that 'bio-fuels' are not feasible beyond a few thousand people using them and only then all it does is delay the inevitable by a tiny amount.

    Getting a job nearer home or moving nearer your job and cycling, walking, getting the bus or train there and back is a far more intelligent choice.
    We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when creating them

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