Provincial Councils: the solution to national over-governance?

[DS-09]

Having given thought to this concept of late, and having done some study on it in the meantime, I have come to the safe conclusion that Ireland for a small nation of 4.3 million with 26 counties, is by all means far too over-governed in comparison to other nations (below I have given examples of U.S. state and English county populations by comparison) which break down into states/territories/counties etc, in which anywhere of up to a dozen of these administrative municipalities can have populations above 1 million people. For instance the province of Leinster as a whole has a population of 2,300,000. Munster has a population of 1,200,000. Connaught has a population of 500,000, and the three Ulster counties in the Republic have a combined population of 250,000.
Counties with populations ranging from (by Irish population standards) the very low population spec (e.g. 30,000-50,000) to other populations with anywhere from 100,000-300,000 each have their own administrative centres- county councils. While many of the more populous states of America have populations exceeding 10 million people, across the majority of the United States the average population of each state would be anywhere from 1,000,000-4,000,000. In England while London is by far the most populous county with 7,500,000- there at least half a dozen counties with populations of (or exceeding) 2,000,000, while most English counties (as well as U.S. states) have populations exceeding 1,000,000. And yet if you where to take all 5 counties of Connaught, and combine them with Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan (as is the case in the Euro-elections) you would get a combined population of 750,000 (below even the average for a U.S. state or English county.
Surely it is time for Ireland, while maintaining it’s county structure for geographical purposes regardless- to be governed on a provincial basis, with the exception been that the Dublin Metropolitan area is governed as it’s own unit- both for governing efficiency, and for a fair balance with the other 3 provinces population-wise. However perhaps Leinster could still be governed completely (with 2.3 million) as another province, who knows. And perhaps the 3 Ulster populations with the mere combined populations of 250,000 could be governed (awaiting perhaps the admittance of the other 6 counties into the Republic) by themselves as another electoral unit.

Either way, by (a) creating perhaps 4 electoral administrations with Dublin Metro, Leinster (rest of), Munster, and Connaught-Ulster, or (b) simply govern by established provincial borders- so you would have Leinster, Munster, Connaught and Ulster- you would get more effective and efficient national governance. If Ireland had a large population, a 26 county administrative system would be excusable- however with a population of 4.3 million, non-national governance in the Republic needs to be seriously studied- and eventually reformed, because Ireland right now is far too over-governed.

Below are examples of the populations of Irish Provinces, U.S. states and English counties.

Irish provinces:
Dublin metro: 1,700,000
Leinster (rest of): 600,000
Munster: 1,200,000
Connaught/ R.I. Ulster: 750,000

Provinces of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U.S. states:

California: 36,750,000
Texas: 24,300,000
New York (state): 19,500,000
Florida: 18,300,000
Illinois; 12,900,000
Pennsylvania: 12,450,000
Virginia: 7,800,000
Massachusetts: 6,500,000
Louisiana: 4,400,000
Nevada: 2,600,000
Rhode Island 1,050,000
Vermont (50th.): 650,000

List of U.S. states by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


English counties:

Greater London: 7,550,000
West Midlands: 2,600,000
Greater Manchester: 2,550,000
West Yorkshire: 2,200,000
Lancashire: 1,450,000
Merseyside: 1,350,000
Devon: 1,150,000
Cornwall: 550,000

List of ceremonial counties of England by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Cael]

The main thing is to get rid of Representational Democracy and replace it with Direct Democracy. For this to work we need a system of federated Community Councils.

[IrishTom]

Republican Sinn Fein have already drafted a comprehensive document on Provincial parliments and federalism.

http://www.rsf.ie/eirenua.htm

[liamfoley]

While US states have their state governments they also have county government and city government. I remember living in a county that had seven law enforcement agencies with a population of about fifty thousand. Beat that for big government.

[DS-09]

Republican Sinn Fein have already drafted a comprehensive document on Provincial parliments and federalism.

http://www.rsf.ie/eirenua.htm

I specifcally mentioned local goverance- and the need for provincal councils in place of county councils as the nation is far too under populated for a 26 county adminstrative structure. I did not say anything about 'provincial parliments' or federalism in regards to the Republic, or the North for that matter.

[odie1kanobe]

No thanks another layer of bureauracracy who will feel the need to justify their existence by making up crap laws.

WTF pays for all of this crap.

[neelio]

So effectively you're looking at a federal government.
It works well in Germany, albeit on a far larger scale. You'd still need a central government if even for co-ordination and foreign relations etc.
So the 'provincial councils' would end up being just another layer of bureaucracy. It might work if you replace the Seanad with them, at least you'd be replacing one layer of government with another,

[DS-09]

No thanks [COLOR="Red"]another layer of bureauracracy [/COLOR]who will feel the need to justify their existence by making up crap laws.

WTF pays for all of this crap.

Did you read the thread title odie1kanobe- Provincial Councils: the solution to national over-governance?

What part of that do you fail to grasp? I said it should be a solution to over-goverance by replacing the 26 county council governing structure, how is that adding an extra layer of government?

[Mercurial]

I must be missing something. How does one go from observing that Ireland is “over-governed” in comparison to some other countries, to the claim that Ireland ought to alter its current system? What are the advantages exactly? Maybe it’s obvious to you, but it’s not obvious to me.

[DS-09]

odie1kanobe I was in fact suggesting cutting down on the layers of government- therefore my personal suggestions for the issue of national over-governance. I hope i'm not wrong, but I think such a system would lead to more efficient national governing. Also once again, Ireland is a small nation with 4.3 million, so let's put things into perspective.