So who could lead FF?

[PatsyOriel]

I agree it must be an new face- thats leave a lot of the existing cabinet out. The cabinet have a lot of mileage on the clock at this stage. I think FF need to promote new faces and new voices from within TD and senator level and set about rebuilding. The damage done is not fatal and remember FG only faired slightly better percentage wise- a worry for them as they should have done better being in oppostion

[Pauli]

Fianna Fail have a massive problem in this regard. Most of the cabinet cannot be considered leadership material in any sense of the word. A cabinet with Mary Coughlan as its No. 2 is in serious difficulty from the off and if she is better than the rest, then we can discount the lot of them.

The problem for FF is systemic. Party HQ has had a much greater role in the determination of candidates in recent times and the tendency to play it safe, as they thought, by dynastic selection has backfired in this election. Cork dynasties were particularly hard hit but the two bye-election candidates were family selections and the Euro candidate for Dublin came from an established family within the party. His daughter failed in her council attempt.

The effect of this is that the is little new blood coming into the party and when it comes in, the dynastic option will always be preferred over the new blood.

So in conclusion, it is a party of stale consensus, of familial cabals, no fresh thinking, a party which does not encourage newcomers or anything which could rock the boat and a party which, in Dublin, is dying on its feet.

I have tried to keep this as objective as possible so that constructive FF posters may reply to it in a constructive manner if they so wish.

[Ciarán Mac Mathghamhna]

Fianna Fail have a massive problem in this regard. Most of the cabinet cannot be considered leadership material in any sense of the word. A cabinet with Mary Coughlan as its No. 2 is in serious difficulty from the off and if she is better than the rest, then we can discount the lot of them.

The problem for FF is systemic. Party HQ has had a much greater role in the determination of candidates in recent times and the tendency to play it safe, as they thought, by dynastic selection has backfired in this election. Cork dynasties were particularly hard hit but the two bye-election candidates were family selections and the Euro candidate for Dublin came from an established family within the party. His daughter failed in her council attempt.

The effect of this is that the is little new blood coming into the party and when it comes in, the dynastic option will always be preferred over the new blood.

So in conclusion, it is a party of stale consensus, of familial cabals, no fresh thinking, a party which does not encourage newcomers or anything which could rock the boat and a party which, in Dublin, is dying on its feet.

I have tried to keep this as objective as possible so that constructive FF posters may reply to it in a constructive manner if they so wish.

I believe a lot of what you have said is generally very true, and am saying this as a Fianna Fáiler. I think there may be a few in Cabinet who might be able to do as good a job, or perhaps a bit better - but not significantly so - than Cowen and as such, I don't see any real value in any of them starting a heave. About two months ago, when McGuinness went on the Late Late, I did think he was some kind of 'stalking horse' and thought that perhaps Dempsey might follow after him - and he may yet - but it didn't, as we all know, and I doubt it'd do much good.

I honestly think the best thing for both the party and country is for Brian Cowen to stay in office for as much of the government's term as possible but on the conditions that:
a) a merciless reshuffle takes place in the autumn;
b) the renegotiation of the programme for government bears innovative, surprising and practical fruit;
c) that a root-and-branch reorganisation of the party takes place over the next three years, especially devolving selection power to the local cummain from HQ; and,
d) that Martin Mansergh's 'hung for a sheep as a lamb' policy is adhered to and the hard and necessary decisions are made.

I can't see how FF can avoid slipping below 50 seats at the next General Election without carrying out the above.

[FutureChiefJustice]

I think it needs to be a new face. Experience isn't a huge plus (they are up against Kenny after all) and in fact if they have been associated with the mess of the last few years, it's a negative. They need to be from Dublin or environs and they need o be able to communicate well.

I think Dempsey meets most of those criteria.

The entire current cabinet needs flushing. From my limited knowledge of the FF backbench I think Daragh O'Brien is leadership material. Him, John McGuinness, Sean Haughey, The Andrews. At the end of the day though, I am a Fine Gael supporter.

[Adrian Wainer]

Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern TD, could be a leader of Fianna Fail and in the light of his Sharia inspired Blasphemy legislation with one hundred thousand Euro fines for criticizing Wahhabis throwing throwing homosexuals off mountains, he might also apply for the position Grand Mufti of Ireland.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wzhzLhbNd8"]YouTube - Undercover Mosque the Return[/ame]

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[Adrian Wainer]

The entire current cabinet needs flushing. From my limited knowledge of the FF backbench I think Daragh O'Brien is leadership material. Him, John McGuinness, Sean Haughey, The Andrews. At the end of the day though, I am a Fine Gael supporter.

What is that the Andrews Sisters, it can hardly be the Andrews TD guy in the Dail can it? Or if it is that Andrews TD guy, maybe you want to see Fianna Fail even more destroyed, than they are at the moment?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpg5OfHg3wY]YouTube - Christina Aguilera vs The Andrews Sisters[/ame]

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[Dodgy Bertie=Shady Mayor]

I agree it must be an new face- thats leave a lot of the existing cabinet out. The cabinet have a lot of mileage on the clock at this stage. I think FF need to promote new faces and new voices from within TD and senator level and set about rebuilding.

Agreed, so has to be Martin Mansergh to head up FF. They might lose a few die-hard members when he's elected Leader of FF but the cities and urban areas will flock back to FF in the erroneous belief he's one of them.

[X-ray]

Fianna Fail have a massive problem in this regard. Most of the cabinet cannot be considered leadership material in any sense of the word. A cabinet with Mary Coughlan as its No. 2 is in serious difficulty from the off and if she is better than the rest, then we can discount the lot of them.

The problem for FF is systemic. Party HQ has had a much greater role in the determination of candidates in recent times and the tendency to play it safe, as they thought, by dynastic selection has backfired in this election. Cork dynasties were particularly hard hit but the two bye-election candidates were family selections and the Euro candidate for Dublin came from an established family within the party. His daughter failed in her council attempt.

The effect of this is that the is little new blood coming into the party and when it comes in, the dynastic option will always be preferred over the new blood.

So in conclusion, it is a party of stale consensus, of familial cabals, no fresh thinking, a party which does not encourage newcomers or anything which could rock the boat and a party which, in Dublin, is dying on its feet.

I have tried to keep this as objective as possible so that constructive FF posters may reply to it in a constructive manner if they so wish.

I well I spend years in a Dublin FF cumann and you have hit the nail on the head. If you are not connected you are wasting your time and even if you are connected you probably still are. There is no policy debate, no clear rules on how the party works, things change to suit the leadership. YOu actually now a case where the leadership chooses the candidates that will vote for them, how is this democracy. The rules of the party are not obeyed and difficult to be sure what they are. It is a collection of candidate teams, (some of whom are complete thugs and bullies) rather than one party. There is no sense whatsoever that ideas grass roots meeting are fed into policy or used to take the temperature of population.

Iin short I do not know why there is any point being a member other than to be in a fan club for one TD or another, and half their team dont attend any cumanns are are not members.
Unquestioning types that want to get on a ticket or make connections for a legal or anuctioneering career are valued. Loud mouths like me who might actually say what they think or be worried about something like local services are treated with barely concealed contempt.

What is FF?

It is certainly not republican or democratic. It has strayed very very far from where it started.

They thing the problem is people like me needing to be "re-energised", I think the problem is them. Unless there is a revolution in FF it is finished as a mass party. Nobody could careless about these dynastic families anymore, most like shary brennen are living up their own ar se.

[X-ray]

The entire current cabinet needs flushing. From my limited knowledge of the FF backbench I think Daragh O'Brien is leadership material. Him, John McGuinness, Sean Haughey, The Andrews. At the end of the day though, I am a Fine Gael supporter.

Daragh O'Brien is a yes man, are real little safe man from another politcal family. I want to see someone who is really angry and has a plan not someone who looks like he is there to test your eyes or something.