Remove the Religious Orders from our education System

[PODSNR]

Our children deserve a good education free from the menance of the Church and its acolytes!

[True Republican]

Once again more church bashing, the state has done a pathetic job trying to run the health service ever since the religious orders left the health system and education would be no different. Okay, all catholic church bashers on this site, why then in a secular country like England do parents wish to send their children to church schools than the carappy state system, have you ever asked yourself that question. By the way I'm an atheist before anyone accuses me of been a holy joe.

[White Horse]

The failure of the State was to entrust whole the care of children to religious orders. It was the religious orders who committed the abuse, and the State who let them do it almost unchecked.

That is only part of the failue of the state. Did the Church remove children from parents for petty offences and sentenced them in courts of law to "institutions"?

I think you'll find it that it was the courts and the State who did that.

There was a victim interviewed on RTE today who said that a young boy was sentenced to serve in an institution for truancy by the courts. Fine you might think? The boy was THREE years old.

The most sensible commentator I have heard on this issue is Fergus Finlay. On Q&A last night, he said that the conclusion from this report is that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

He was concerned that this might happen again if another organisation has unaccountable power. He said it will never be a religious order again. However, I think he was hinting at the unaccountable and dictatorial HSE.

Both the State and the Church held absolute power of children's lives and both abused their position.

I still haven't worked out which I am more disgusted at.

[marmurr1916]

If religious run schools are so much better, then why are so many of the national schools and secondary schools run by religious denominations in Ireland producing such poor results?

There are plenty of well-run, well-funded, successful (both academically and otherwise) state schools with no religious involvement.

Naturally, there are very poor state schools too but those tend to be in poorer areas.

State schools in middle class and wealthy areas are fine, those in poorer areas often have problems.

It's nothing to do with religion and everything to do with funding and parental attitudes to education.

[tmesis2008]

Once again more church bashing, the state has done a pathetic job trying to run the health service ever since the religious orders left the health system and education would be no different.

Are you an anarchist?

Okay, all catholic church bashers on this site, why then in a secular country like England do parents wish to send their children to church schools than the carappy state system, have you ever asked yourself that question. By the way I'm an atheist before anyone accuses me of been a holy joe.

You might be an atheist, but that doesn't mean you aren't a numbnut. Firstly England isn't a secular country. Ever hear of the Church of England? Secondly, the reason that "Church" schools are better is that they are longer established, better-resourced (having the financial backing of wealthy churches) are able to pick and choose pupils and teachers etc. etc. It has nothing to do with "faith", and everything to do with worldly reasons.

Of course, you could explain exactly how someone's belief that Jesus is the Son of God helps them teach a kid that 5x5=25, although as you identified England as a secular state I don't hold out much hope for a subsequent coherent argument.

[PODSNR]

Once again more church bashing, the state has done a pathetic job trying to run the health service ever since the religious orders left the health system and education would be no different. Okay, all catholic church bashers on this site, why then in a secular country like England do parents wish to send their children to church schools than the carappy state system, have you ever asked yourself that question. By the way I'm an atheist before anyone accuses me of been a holy joe.

This is not church bashing just a reality check..the Church also left the mess our hospitals are in and used the Magdalen Laundry system to service them so not a good example!

[tmesis2008]

That is only part of the failue of the state. Did the Church remove children from parents for petty offences and sentenced them in courts of law to "institutions"?

I think you'll find it that it was the courts and the State who did that.

Yes, the court and the State filled with people educated by Catholic orders. Filled with people who truly believed in sinfulness and believing that a good stint in a religious school would sort these sinners out.

And, are you advocating the ending of the State? Are you an anarchist now?

The most sensible commentator I have heard on this issue is Fergus Finlay. On Q&A last night, he said that the conclusion from this report is that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

He was concerned that this might happen again if another organisation has unaccountable power. He said it will never be a religious order again. However, I think he was hinting at the unaccountable and dictatorial HSE.

I agree with you there. But clearly the Church has not learned, and has been dragged through this report, and even recently with the Bishop of Cloynes has proved itself incapable of dealing swiftly and correctly with people who don't have the utmost regard for child safety. The religious orders have refused to revisit the financial deal. They are morally bankrupt and should be dropkicked out of the education system.

The Dublin report is going to be vile as well. Please, finally, people might wake up and smell the coffee regarding Fianna Fail and the Catholic Church.

Both the State and the Church held absolute power of children's lives and both abused their position.

I still haven't worked out which I am more disgusted at.

Have you not? While I revile those who allow abuse, I have a special hate in my heart for those who perpetrate it. Those religious orders who refuse to revisit this deal are still peretrating abuse.

[White Horse]

the Church also left the mess our hospitals are in....

I don't think this is correct.

[White Horse]

And, are you advocating the ending of the State? Are you an anarchist now?.

I think we need to democratise the provision of public services. The HSE is an unaccountable monster. Public representatives are constantly frustated at attempts to hold them to account.

I thing this report shows that there are inherent dangers in anaccountable bodies.

Those religious orders who refuse to revisit this deal are still peretrating abuse.

As far as I am concerned they should be declared proscibed organisations and driven from the country.

Only full admission of guilt, contrition, and compensation gives them a chance of even meriting survival.

[Wakeupcall]

Bottom Line - Why brainwash our children with b u l l s h it?