Tax take per Revenue Commissioners report

[revereie]

Gross Receipts of Duties:
Customs 233,911,108
Excise 5,549,243,334
Capital Acquisitions Tax 260,913,381
Capital Gains Tax 2,015,544,815
Stamp Duties 2,692,718,584
Residential Property Tax 398,776
Income Tax 14,176,801,078
Corporation Tax 6,003,225,853
Value Added Tax 15,591,383,270

46,524,140,199

I guess judging by the annual stamp duty tax take that we won't be seeing a reduction in rates here any time soon. Also, it strikes me that any correction/slowdown in the property market will impact Revenue quite severely.

[chiffon rouge]

Gross Receipts of Duties:
Customs 233,911,108
Excise 5,549,243,334
Capital Acquisitions Tax 260,913,381
Capital Gains Tax 2,015,544,815
Stamp Duties 2,692,718,584
Residential Property Tax 398,776
Income Tax 14,176,801,078
Corporation Tax 6,003,225,853
Value Added Tax 15,591,383,270

46,524,140,199

Is nobody concerned about the fact that VAT (which rich and poor pay alike) raises more than income tax (which the rich would pay a higher proportion of).

I won't even mention Corporation Tax.

[Gombeen]

Gross Receipts of Duties:
Customs 233,911,108
Excise 5,549,243,334
Capital Acquisitions Tax 260,913,381
Capital Gains Tax 2,015,544,815
Stamp Duties 2,692,718,584
Residential Property Tax 398,776
Income Tax 14,176,801,078
Corporation Tax 6,003,225,853
Value Added Tax 15,591,383,270

46,524,140,199

Is nobody concerned about the fact that VAT (which rich and poor pay alike) raises more than income tax (which the rich would pay a higher proportion of).

Only if they're PAYE workers. If they're self-employed and have a good accountant, the rich can pay much less income tax in percentage terms than Joe Soap.

[revereie]

Per the Revenue and quoted in last weeks SBP;

"Recent Revenue statistics show that the top 1 per cent of income earners in this country pay more than 20 per cent of the income tax yield. The top 5,000 earners pay more tax collectively than the bottom 1.1 million earners."
[/quote]

[ibis]

Is nobody concerned about the fact that VAT (which rich and poor pay alike) raises more than income tax (which the rich would pay a higher proportion of).

I won't even mention Corporation Tax.

Businesses also pay VAT.

[ibis]

Per the Revenue and quoted in last weeks SBP;

"Recent Revenue statistics show that the top 1 per cent of income earners in this country pay more than 20 per cent of the income tax yield. The top 5,000 earners pay more tax collectively than the bottom 1.1 million earners."

What, the rich are already heavily taxed! Then why isn't everything right with the world! Surely some mistake!

[revereie]

Very few businesses pay VAT - essentially a cash-flow-through problem for them, how to account and pay it over etc., etc. VAT is a tax on consumption on luxury items (theoretically) hence why cream donuts are taxed with VAT but bread isn't.

[ibis]

Very few businesses pay VAT - essentially a cash-flow-through problem for them, how to account and pay it over etc., etc. VAT is a tax on consumption on luxury items (theoretically) hence why cream donuts are taxed with VAT but bread isn't.

Not at all. If you are in, for example, software, where are your VAT inputs to balance the VAT on your outputs? Most service industries charge VAT, which goes to the Revenue, but have very small VATable inputs.

The theory is that VAT is literally a charge on the value added - so if I take an input worth €10, I pay VAT at 21% for €2.10. If I then sell that on at €20, I charge VAT of €4.20. The difference, of €2.10, accrues to the revenue, and will be part of the VAT take shown in the figures.

I'll grant you that unbalanced VAT for businesses will most likely be passed on to the eventual consumer, but that doesn't show in the Revenue's VAT figures, and therefore is diffciult to discuss on the basis of the figures quoted.

[revereie]

But its not a cost to the business is it ? Its charged on the cost of the service (e.g. labour) (say €500) and profit taken (say €105) at VAT rate of 21% equals €127 so the customer pays €732 but can reclaim €127 in their VAT return. The business doesn't keep this cash but hands it over to Revenue, if it incurred more VAT in the period than it collected it receives a refund from the Revenue - this is very common in some industries.

Ultimately it all balances out until the end-consumer i.e. you and me in our capacity as private individuals pay. When you buy the services ultimately for (say) €1,000 plus VAT of €210, the Revenue have already collected most of this €210 all the way from the wholesaler to the middlemen to the retailer.

[ibis]

But its not a cost to the business is it ? Its charged on the cost of the service (e.g. labour) (say €500) and profit taken (say €105) at VAT rate of 21% equals €127 so the customer pays €732 but can reclaim €127 in their VAT return.

Ultimately the end-consumer i.e. you and me in our capacity as private individuals pay.

Possibly my use of the word "pay" is confusing. On balance, businesses contribute to the VAT figure shown. There are businesses like mine that are "primary producers" - I write Internet business software as a sole trader, and I have very few Vatable inputs, so I contribute to the VAT figure shown. In theory my contribution is balanced off down the chain (fiscally neutral), but to quote a quick explanation:

Value added tax ("VAT") is charged on the supply of goods and services in Ireland. Output tax is charged on sales by suppliers, who are in turn entitled to deduct input tax charged to them on their expenses. This process continues until the supply reaches the final consumer, or a business that does not use the supply to make onward taxable supplies of its own, who bears the tax. Thus the impact of VAT on businesses making only taxable supplies should normally be fiscally neutral.

Businesses that do not make "onward taxable supplies", such as travel agencies and training companies, or that use a lower rate of VAT (eg 13.5%), or are non-profits (such as political parties, charities, and the Government itself), are all contributors to the VAT figure shown. There are a lot more of these than one thinks, and their contribution to the VAT figure will not be small.

Depending on how one looks at it, you could call me the contributor (since I pay the VAT to the Revenue, and I number all the above categories amongst my customers), or them (since they pay me the VAT I pay to the Revenue).