How far are we from revolution?

[Hewson]

Absoultely zero chance of revolution. England ruled us for hundreds of years, created more than one famine, enslaved many of us, defeated our armies, destroyed our language and culture, pushed our religion underground and forced millions to emigrate.

Despite that our pathetic revolutions never were successful and attracted tiny percentages of the population. People still bash the few who did try to revolt.

We our the most docile nation in the world and will sit and moan when we are emigrating in 12-18 months

All of what you say is true, but the big difference between today and then is our education levels. We've reached a point in our history where we can, and should, think for ourselves.

We're masters of our own destiny and the road we travel will be the one we choose.

[Libero]

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana]The Irish people already have a clear, legitimate means to implement political change: democracy.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana]The only revolution I can foresee is against those who would strip us of democracy. However, the reality of popular sovereignty would come into question if an Irish government effectively handed over control of the important decisions of State to an external body. There can be a thin line between reluctantly accepted harsh medicine, agreed with an external body, and illegitimate surrender of authority by a government with an irrelevant mandate.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana]Political science tells us of the J-Curve… (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_curve#Political_science_.28Model_of_revolutions. 29)[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana]

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana]"Revolutions are most likely to occur when a prolonged period of objective economic and social development is followed by a short period of sharp reversal. People then subjectively fear that ground gained with great effort will be quite lost; their mood becomes revolutionary. The evidence from Dorr's Rebellion, the Russian Revolution, and the Egyptian Revolution supports this notion; tentatively, so do data on other civil disturbances. Various statistics--as on rural uprisings, industrial strikes, unemployment, and cost of living--may serve as crude indexes of popular mood. More useful, though less easy to obtain, are direct questions in cross-sectional interviews. The goal of predicting revolution is conceived but not yet born or matured."[/FONT][/FONT]

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[pete2]

"We have four boxes with which to defend our freedom: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" -- Unknown

Three of the four aren't working

[Nipper]

Not a hope. The set up here is too rigged and will go as follows - the greens suddenly find the high ground and bring down the government. We have a general election and we replace Current shower with new shower. We convince ourselves things have changed and then it's back to business as usual.

[loaded32]

Very True!!!! We are way too blaasé and passive to have a forceful revolution anyway.

The revolution must be in the way we think and vote!

[goosebump]

I think the recent sex abuses report, and the government's forcing the taxpayer to pay for 90% of the compensation claims is in many ways reminiscent of the French ancien regime, where the commoners were made pay exorbitant rates to the higher estates. Too add insult to injury many of these vile child abusers are not even going to be convicted - in fact their good names have been preserved from the courts and the media (who have also a disgusting record in suppressing critical journalists). The Irish people are also being made cover up the mess left as a result of the scandallous way in which the banks operated, while these vile criminals not only get away scot free, but in addition will enjoy their lavish pensions. All this is happening during one of the worst economic recessions ever. We have mounting international debt with no guarantee the state couldn't default. It seems that people are becoming ever more alienated from the constitutional authorities. It would also seem that there exists a near consensus on this forum that the government cannot go soon enough. Anyone acquainted with the reign of Louis XVI cannot but notice the parallels.

I am in way advocating such a course of action, but I would like to know whether you think the prospect of a revolution is a likely one? Is it even remotely possible? Would you participate in one if you thought it would succeed? Would you even give moral support to a revolution?

Yeah, sure, its probably going to being at Mass on Sunday, after the death notices.

[thecretinhop]

We will never have revolution in this country, this is where Ireland is at right now:

Economy destroyed for generations
Health system destroyed
Justice system destroyed
Church who have destroyed lives not an ounce of remorse
Political corruption in the same league as Africa
Planning corruption worse than Africa
Compliant police force with powers above
Compliant media with powers above

and mostly not a boo out of many, what other country would blindly ignore the above

[Wendy]

For a revolution to make sense, you'd need a clearly defined "us" and "them", surely? That's lacking in the contemporary Irish situation.

For starters, there is no sense of a common cause between private sector unemployed people (I am one) and unionised workers, particularly those with job security and pensions. Politicians on the left in particular seem unwilling to take that awkward truth on board.

[Timeisshort]

What a bunch of defeatists you lot are !! Maybe you should start with a personal revolution, and give up on the idea of saviour politics.

We are the people we have been waiting for.

[the klingon]

The revolution we need can be started in the ballot booths throughout the country, starting on June 5 and continuing when the General Election is called, which will be later this year. Voting out the Government will be a start, but in reality what's needed is a revolution in the way we think and behave. A past US ambassador to Ireland once famously said that the Irish had lost the ability to be outraged. And how right she was.

The litany of abuse of trust, position and power over the last few decades, perpetrated by politicians and senior public servants, has been utterly outrageous. People in whom we placed our faith to do what's good for society were all too often busy betraying that trust and lining their own pockets at our expense and, as in planning corruption, destroying the lives of thousands of people. CEOs of semi-state organisations used unjustifiable expenses to live a lavish lifestyle.

And the result? A cascade of hot air and endless moral indignation.

Then back to business as usual . . .

If we are to take seriously the desire to have a truly equal society, or as near equal as possible, then we need to change how we manage our politicians and the public servants we pay. And I do mean 'manage'. This means 'outing' and ostracising in a public way those who fall short of the highest standards of beahviour in public life. It means not tolerating profligate waste of public money, as has happened over and over with the current Government. It means allocating resources into areas where the greatest needs lie, especially education.

Ultimately it means being less tolerant of incompetence, indifference and downright stupidity. We need to shake off the torpor that lies over us as a nation. For too long we quietly complained, in an almost embarrassed way, about things that really should have packed the streets with outrage.

We accepted low standards because we believed that 'that's the way they are and there's nothing can be done about them'. We even believed that we probably didn't deserve any better anyway. But we do. And we can have better government.

But only if we're willing to work at it ourselves and unwilling to accept second best.

That's the point, when you have elections you can vote "them" out, at least of you actually have an alternative. In practice, when you have a population ignorant enough to vote for a party because their daddy told them to do that - they deserve a reaming.
In fact we need to hear them howl from reaming so they don't forget it in a few years time. THEN we can see how interested people are in playing an active role in their society.
FF paid off the dumbo's with wage increases and told them they were living in the bestest/richest country in the world, and anyone saying watch out for the future was a doom monger.

Comfortable, safe people with food on the table rarely if ever start a revolution, because revolution is painful and dangerous. People ALREADY in a painful and dangerous situation could support a revolution to change that.
Things aren't bad enough to generate the inertia for a revolution, food shortage, people sleeping in the streets, mass unemployment would be required. Hopefully it won't come to that, but I do hope that people learn their lesson, and teach that to their kids, not feckin nonsense voting.

If you want the highest moral standards from public office you must impose them on yourself first. If we all accept low standards no one gives a toss. Expect from others what you already hold yourself to.

Looking at our scandals like that by the church, covered up by a government which hadn't fully separated church and state, and a powerless police force. The same Governement and police forces now appear as powerless as the Church to deal with the financial and political scandals running up and down the land. Giving away our finite resources for free, when we too stupid to leave it in the ground and appreciate in value for our kids to inherit, armed criminals freely roving the land and, repeating the mistake of the troubles, we have the police removing firearms from law abiding citizens. -we are still an immature, weak nation, with a lot of lessons to learn. Not weak people, but a weak nation.