Part of the solution to immigration

[laughingcow]

This thread is directed mainly to FutureTaoiseach, Catalpa, Twin Towers etc.

For me the reason for the mass immigration to Europe is poverty. No one looked for asylum here when Ireland was poor, and I don't believe that vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland are really in fear of their life. They come to Ireland because we are rich and they are poor.

If we were to aleviate the poverty in Africa and Asia the pressure on Europe's borders would lessen considerably.
They way to do this is not through charity but to through trade. China and Vietnam have lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty in the last twenty-five years not through charity but through trade.

If we don't accept the goods of the third world we will end receiving their peoples. The WTO, the internet and globalisation are changing the world economically; if the EU was to encourage lower world trade barriers the farmers of Ireland would suffer but I believe the benefits would outweigh the pain.

The global economy grew at about 6% last year. The rate in Africa was probably higher, but due to population growth poverty in the continent probably increased; increasing the push factors to get out of Africa. No one with 10 to 14 kids can be wealthy nor fully educate their children.

While citizens in Ireland have no control or influence over global trade rules you can do something about birth rates in the third world. So, instead of wasting money by giving it to Concern, Goal, Bothar etc. you might consider the following charity:

http://www.unfpa.org/support/index.htm

Their are probably other similar charities around but I can't find them on the internet.
You won't see any results for a generation but it is a plausable part of the solution.

[factual]

This thread is directed mainly to FutureTaoiseach, Catalpa, Twin Towers etc.

For me the reason for the mass immigration to Europe is poverty. No one looked for asylum here when Ireland was poor, and I don't believe that vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland are really in fear of their life. They come to Ireland because we are rich and they are poor.

If we were to aleviate the poverty in Africa and Asia the pressure on Europe's borders would lessen considerably.
They way to do this is not through charity but to through trade. China and Vietnam have lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty in the last twenty-five years not through charity but through trade.

If we don't accept the goods of the third world we will end receiving their peoples. The WTO, the internet and globalisation are changing the world economically; if the EU was to encourage lower world trade barriers the farmers of Ireland would suffer but I believe the benefits would outweigh the pain.

The global economy grew at about 6% last year. The rate in Africa was probably higher, but due to population growth poverty in the continent probably increased; increasing the push factors to get out of Africa. No one with 10 to 14 kids can be wealthy nor fully educate their children.

While citizens in Ireland have no control or influence over global trade rules you can do something about birth rates in the third world. So, instead of wasting money by giving it to Concern, Goal, Bothar etc. you might consider the following charity:

http://www.unfpa.org/support/index.htm

Their are probably other similar charities around but I can't find them on the internet.
You won't see any results for a generation but it is a plausable part of the solution.

International development isn't just about stopping immigration, its about alleviating poveerty the world over. But it is true that the best solution to all of this is development, and then giving everyone a choice as to where to live. Lets not just go for an Ireland of Equals, to use Sinn Fein's admirable phrase, but for a World of Equals too.

Hence we should want to helpe more investment go to Poland and other eastern countries, rather than just hoping it will all be in Ireland. Because if all the investrment is in Ireland and not Poland then no wonder the Poles move to Ireland. And other things equal the Poles would rather be in their own country. Also let us reassess our corporation tax policy, and Sinn Fein are proposing an increase. Not only will this help to raise tax for better public services, it may mean that the Eastern Block don't have to join us in a "race to the bottom" in company tax. This maybe makes it harder for Poland to attract investment while having a company tax.

[mothball]

This thread is directed mainly to FutureTaoiseach, Catalpa, Twin Towers etc.

For me the reason for the mass immigration to Europe is poverty. No one looked for asylum here when Ireland was poor, and I don't believe that vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland are really in fear of their life. They come to Ireland because we are rich and they are poor.

If we were to aleviate the poverty in Africa and Asia the pressure on Europe's borders would lessen considerably.
They way to do this is not through charity but to through trade. China and Vietnam have lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty in the last twenty-five years not through charity but through trade.

If we don't accept the goods of the third world we will end receiving their peoples. The WTO, the internet and globalisation are changing the world economically; if the EU was to encourage lower world trade barriers the farmers of Ireland would suffer but I believe the benefits would outweigh the pain.

The global economy grew at about 6% last year. The rate in Africa was probably higher, but due to population growth poverty in the continent probably increased; increasing the push factors to get out of Africa. No one with 10 to 14 kids can be wealthy nor fully educate their children.

While citizens in Ireland have no control or influence over global trade rules you can do something about birth rates in the third world. So, instead of wasting money by giving it to Concern, Goal, Bothar etc. you might consider the following charity:

http://www.unfpa.org/support/index.htm

Their are probably other similar charities around but I can't find them on the internet.
You won't see any results for a generation but it is a plausable part of the solution.

International development isn't just about stopping immigration, its about alleviating poveerty the world over. But it is true that the best solution to all of this is development, and then giving everyone a choice as to where to live. Lets not just go for an Ireland of Equals, to use Sinn Fein's admirable phrase, but for a World of Equals too.

Hence we should want to helpe more investment go to Poland and other eastern countries, rather than just hoping it will all be in Ireland. Because if all the investrment is in Ireland and not Poland then no wonder the Poles move to Ireland. And other things equal the Poles would rather be in their own country. Also let us reassess our corporation tax policy, and Sinn Fein are proposing an increase. Not only will this help to raise tax for better public services, it may mean that the Eastern Block don't have to join us in a "race to the bottom" in company tax. This maybe makes it harder for Poland to attract investment while having a company tax.

We would raise more tax for a short while prior to the loss of our jobs due to the multinational companies shipping out. They stay while it is worthwhile and not out of love for Ireland. Even if they don't ship out, other companies who had considered moving to Ireland could set up elsewhere.
Well educated English speaking people can be found in other states where the tax may be lower and if it isn't their infrastructure will be better.

[angelcountry]

[quote="laughingcow"]This thread is directed mainly to FutureTaoiseach, Catalpa, Twin Towers etc.

For me the reason for the mass immigration to Europe is poverty. No one looked for asylum here when Ireland was poor, and I don't believe that vast majority of asylum seekers in Ireland are really in fear of their life. They come to Ireland because we are rich and they are poor.

Good comment indeed.
But can i ask the person that wrote this,that in view of the aforementioned point,why are our citizen going to the united state and at the same time pleading for legal status there if we are so rich and the country coming to our country are poor?
After that,can i called for our citizen in the united state to returned home then,and we send back all the immigrant back to their various country cos they are all poor.
Having said that,it's significant that if 50.000 of our people are not poor aswell,what are they doing in the united state of america?
I believed that,before you slag off the immigrant in ireland you must,think
about ourself before you post that sort of degrading comment.

[Worldbystorm]

Hmmm...another post from angelcountry which appears to be in terms of language usage straight from the 18th century.

But the point raised is an interesting one.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I agree to an extent with what you say laughingcow. However the politicians will still say "we need 40,000 a year etc.".

[badger]

why are our citizen going to the united state and at the same time pleading for legal status there if we are so rich

In my experience there is not a great difference in the standard of living between the US and Ireland, I have lived in NY, Kentucky and Texas. Your money does go further over here but then again it depends on what part of the country, east and west coasts are very expensive, probably equivalent to Dublin, but places like Texas are good value for money. My experience with most Irish people that I have meet over here is that they headed over for a laugh, got a job in construction or behind a bar and just never bothered coming home. I mean the weather is much better, and there is a much greater sense of community in the Irish areas, generally I have found the Irish abroad to be extremely helpful and friendly and would do anything to help set you up with work or find accommodation. Also I think some of the reason why people tend to stay is that back home (especially in rural Ireland) America is still seen as the promised land and no matter what menial job your doing over there it is somehow better that doing the same job back home.

[hiding behind a poster]

Also let us reassess our corporation tax policy, and Sinn Fein are proposing an increase. Not only will this help to raise tax for better public services,

Errr, no it won't. Low corporation tax is one of the most important variables that companies consider when deciding on investing in, or remaining in, Ireland. While a rise in the corporation tax rate might increase the tax take from companies within Ireland, the reality is that many many companies, particularly those who trade in Ireland in name only in order to redirect profits through Ireland's low CT regime, would be out of here like a rocket. And thus the CT take would reduce, and employment would also fall. Both events would take money from the Exchequer, in the drop in CT, the drop in income tax and consumption tax revenue, and the rise in in social welfare costs. So there'd be LESS money available for public services, not more.

I've put this to you on several threads, Factual - and you've never replied. Now, do you accept this analysis or not?

[Twin Towers]

Good comment indeed.
But can i ask the person that wrote this,that in view of the aforementioned point,why are our citizen going to the united state and at the same time pleading for legal status there if we are so rich and the country coming to our country are poor?
After that,can i called for our citizen in the united state to returned home then,and we send back all the immigrant back to their various country cos they are all poor.
Having said that,it's significant that if 50.000 of our people are not poor aswell,what are they doing in the united state of america?
I believed that,before you slag off the immigrant in ireland you must,think
about ourself before you post that sort of degrading comment.

Angelcountry,please,put some kinda warning,to anybody,that might happen along,two neurofen and a bottle of optrex,needed,but wont help.

[laughingcow]

[quote="angelcountry"]

But can i ask the person that wrote this,that in view of the aforementioned point,why are our citizen going to the united state and at the same time pleading for legal status there if we are so rich and the country coming to our country are poor?

This is the only part of your post that I could understand angelcountry.
Whether the Americans decide to ship back 50,000 illegal Irish in the USA is none of my business. It is a democratic country which is enforcing their laws in the field of domestic policy. It is simply a matter for American electorate.
The Irish who are there illegally know they are there illegally, they knew they were going to be there illegally, they consciously decided to break the law and are consciously continuing to break the law.
They have decided to gamble and break the law adn so far that gamble has paid off.
If the Americans decide to kick them out I'll respect that decision and I won't starting jumping up and down and shouting "Racism!" "Discrimination" etc.
TDs lobbying for the illegal Irish is just politics, nothing surprising.