ICP use "racist and inflammatory hate speech" -ICC

[FutureTaoiseach]

We have to keep Irish people the majority in their own country. The left don't seem to recognise the relevance of national identity. We have a national identity you know. It was mostly nationalism which freed this country not socialism. James Connolly and Countess Markievicz's socialism being the exceptions to this in 1916.

Does the Politically-Active Irish Left care about protecting it? National identity matters more to people than class-conflict. I want to know how the Irish Left see Irish national identity surviving in a context of mass-migration. Let's discuss this issue in the open instead of suppressing legitimate concerns. Let's end the PC way in which we who are concerned are expected to bottle up such concerns.

I'm interested in the Left's contribution to this.

[Worldbystorm]

We have to keep Irish people the majority in their own country. The left don't seem to recognise the relevance of national identity. We have a national identity you know. It was mostly nationalism which freed this country not socialism. James Connolly and Countess Markievicz's socialism being the exceptions to this in 1916.

Does the Politically-Active Irish Left care about protecting it? National identity matters more to people than class-conflict. I want to know how the Irish Left see Irish national identity surviving in a context of mass-migration. Let's discuss this issue in the open instead of suppressing legitimate concerns. Let's end the PC way in which we who are concerned are expected to bottle up such concerns.

I'm interested in the Left's contribution to this.

I think you're wrong in your analysis. First up the idea that we would become a national minority in this state seems untenable. Migration will wax and wane, however I agree some limitations may need to be put on annual inward migration for economic rather than identity reasons.

I don't think people on a day to day level put identity over class conflict, at least in so far as the class conflict is subliminated into economic self-interest. That I think is vastly more important, which is why even with quite significant inflows of people there hasn't been serious widescale tension. To be frank people are mainly doing well enough themselves that whether Poles or Chinese are serving food or sweeping corridors is fairly irrelevant. Indeed I have a nastly suspicion that it gives some satisfaction to see this state of affairs.

That is not to say that identity isn't important, it clearly is as we've also seen time and again, but so far the collision hasn't been between Irish identity and inward migration.

As for the left, yes, there is an aspect of left-wing thinking which has ignored an Irish/Republican element, mostly for the best of reasons, internationalism. But in the main people muddle by. Incidentally I'd think you underplay the importance of socialism, even say on the anti-Treaty side in the Civil War, but also before it.

And I think it's telling, and perhaps quite good, that the politically active left in the guise of the unions which is willing to point up the problems, not on the identity side, but on the economic side.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I think you're wrong in your analysis. First up the idea that we would become a national minority in this state seems untenable. Migration will wax and wane, however I agree some limitations may need to be put on annual inward migration for economic rather than identity reasons.

Are you a party member? If so what are the views of members of the party that you speak to or know of on these questions? I am curious.

[Worldbystorm]

I think you're wrong in your analysis. First up the idea that we would become a national minority in this state seems untenable. Migration will wax and wane, however I agree some limitations may need to be put on annual inward migration for economic rather than identity reasons.

Are you a party member? If so what are the views of members of the party that you speak to or know of on these questions? I am curious.

No I'm not a party member. Independent libertarian marxist republican (hence the starry plough)...whatever that may mean :wink:

[FutureTaoiseach]

I think you're wrong in your analysis. First up the idea that we would become a national minority in this state seems untenable. Migration will wax and wane, however I agree some limitations may need to be put on annual inward migration for economic rather than identity reasons.

Are you a party member? If so what are the views of members of the party that you speak to or know of on these questions? I am curious.

No I'm not a party member. Independent libertarian marxist republican (hence the starry plough)...whatever that may mean :wink:

Are immigrants less likely to support a 32 county republic in your view?

[Worldbystorm]

I think you're wrong in your analysis. First up the idea that we would become a national minority in this state seems untenable. Migration will wax and wane, however I agree some limitations may need to be put on annual inward migration for economic rather than identity reasons.

Are you a party member? If so what are the views of members of the party that you speak to or know of on these questions? I am curious.

No I'm not a party member. Independent libertarian marxist republican (hence the starry plough)...whatever that may mean :wink:

Are immigrants less likely to support a 32 county republic in your view?

I don't know...it would be interesting to see hard statistics from the UK and US. In the latter there doesn't appear to be a significant problem of identification with the state, presumably due to a strong civil sense of identity which I'd be entirely happy to see promoted here. In the former I think religious belief might be interesting as a factor, as there does appear to be severe alienation amongst some Muslims...and yet...I note Jack Straw and others depend upon the Muslim vote for their seats so in the main there must be some identification with the nation and it's political institutions.

I appreciate this is a consistent proposition of yours but I think we'd need to parse the figures on it to come to a reasonably decisive judgement, don't you?

Isn't Shoukri, or Shoukli, the UDA commander in Belfast from an orginally Egyptian family. He seems to have assimilated all too well into the North.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Isn't Shoukri, or Shoukli, the UDA commander in Belfast from an orginally Egyptian family. He seems to have assimilated all too well into the North.

Exceptional though.