Being a trade union activist, I am aware of this issue- amongst the hundreds of issues that trade union members talk about re. their union and pay etc.

However, I do think it is significant.

Currently, Irish speakers can get a few extra marks in interviews for certain jobs because they can speak Irish. It is seen as a skill and a resource.

However, should there be any extra marks given for being an Irish speaker in the civil service?

Obviously, it is an advantage to have Irish and it should be taken into consideration, in my view.

The problem is that many civil servants view the system as corrupt- although the extra marks haven't really been given out much in the last decade (although this might change soon)- and there is, of course, the affect the marks have on dampening enthuasism for the Irish language.

Views?

Originally Posted by sean1

Currently, Irish speakers can get a few extra marks in interviews for certain jobs because they can speak Irish. It is seen as a skill and a resource.

This is perhaps the Civil Service being over-generalist, another example is that a secondary school teacher gets extra pay for just having a doctorate. Yet a doctorate is not actually required and if the have one they are not expected to perform to any higher standard.

In private practice such rigorous, discrete formalised systems just aren't gone with, employees are expected to be somewhat agile ...

Originally Posted by cyberianpan

This is perhaps the Civil Service being over-generalist, another example is that a secondary school teacher gets extra pay for just having a doctorate. Yet a doctorate is not actually required and if the have one they are not expected to perform to any higher standard.

Irish is an advantage in the the govt. departments and the county councils though. My concern is that the issue gets hyped up- like others (perhaps yourself included)- on other threads have been doing- leading to a sense of disenfrancmnet amongst lower-paid workers- in particular- at a perceived elitist system that favours Irish over monlingual English, or non-Irish speakers. Is is elitist, and if so, is it that significant? I think so.

Originally Posted by cyberianpan

In private practice such rigorous, discrete formalised systems just aren't gone with, employees are expected to be somewhat agile ...

If employees have degrees, or any third-level qualifications, though they are often informally- or formally- seen by the bosses as being better- although it comes down to who is the best worker in the end.

It's a very clumsy way of trying to do something worthwhile. The worthwhile thing is that the public should be able to do business with the state through the medium of Irish. For example, I have given up trying to buy stamps through Irish, except from one particular gentleman in a particular post office who welcomes the language. I got tired of trying to buy stamps from other Post Office clerks who just gaped when I addressed them. I maintain that I should have a right to be served in the national language.
It is relevant to some of the crazier postings we see here. Instead of a country dominated by gaeilgeori, as appears to be the "nightmare" experienced by the anti-Irish crowd, the reality is that a gaeilgeoir is unable to live and conduct his business through the medium of Irish. There are countless things I can't do through Irish, even with state, semi-state or local government agencies. And don't even think of trying to do business as gaeilge with private or multinational companies!
GD

Originally Posted by georgedillon

the reality is that a gaeilgeoir is unable to live and conduct his business through the medium of Irish. There are countless things I can't do through Irish, even with state, semi-state or local government agencies. And don't even think of trying to do business as gaeilge with private or multinational companies!

So? You speak English.

As for the civil service point, surely it makes sense to select people on how they can best do the job at hand, rather than the language they can do the job in.

Originally Posted by Pidge

As for the civil service point, surely it makes sense to select people on how they can best do the job at hand, rather than the language they can do the job in.

The civil service isn't just recruiting for the job at hand, though; it's also building up a store of expertise that can be drawn upon when needed, and it's not outside the bounds of possibility that some maniac might want to engage with the civil service through Irish (for the purposes of, I don't know, buying stamps or something :wink: ). Hence an Irish-speaking candidate has a slightly higher value. Of course, there are plenty of other things that add value to a candidate, so the question is whether the added-value of a certain fluency in Irish is assessed accurately relative to these other things.

Originally Posted by stringjack

The civil service isn't just recruiting for the job at hand, though; it's also building up a store of expertise that can be drawn upon when needed,

How is that different from the "job at hand"?

SJ
"some maniac"

Are Irish speakers the last group who are insulted in this way?

The ironic thing is that the ones doing the insulting usually consider themselves "liberal" or "progressive", but that all goes out the window because of their hatred for a 2000 year-old language. Odd indeed.
GD

Originally Posted by georgedillon

SJ
"some maniac"

Are Irish speakers the last group who are insulted in this way?

The ironic thing is that the ones doing the insulting usually consider themselves "liberal" or "progressive", but that all goes out the window because of their hatred for a 2000 year-old language. Odd indeed.
GD

*sigh*

Originally Posted by georgedillon

SJ
"some maniac"

Are Irish speakers the last group who are insulted in this way?

The ironic thing is that the ones doing the insulting usually consider themselves "liberal" or "progressive", but that all goes out the window because of their hatred for a 2000 year-old language. Odd indeed.
GD

Please a least use the quote button.