Exploding public pay rates

[selfemployedmar]

So do I? Your point?






Say what now? I got a job in the UK, in the.... wait for it....Private Sector.
[COLOR="Red"]
Ah so you will have to work for a change good, left femme.[/COLOR]

I ain't Irish.

[COLOR="Red"]And you took good jobs away from the Irish shocked I am lol [/COLOR]



I don't defend the Public sector blindly, I tackle those who attack it under false pretence.

[COLOR="Red"]
Even funnier, I believe every word you say, passes the paint by numbers to leftfemme, she loves art..[/COLOR]

[bormotello]

But you will not build a strong regulator with qualified accountants not good enough for consultancy firms.

If you want to really make a difference you need excellent people. There are a number of reasons why right now these people will not work in the public service. Money is definitely one of them although I suppose the balance has shifted to some extent. Although if you are a whizz kid you are still better off in the private sector.

Another reason is that too many "career civil servants" in Department of Finance , which are only worries about their T&C rather then public finances.

[Proposition Joe]

A prize for the most creative justification of the pay disparity has to go to Jack O'Connor for his comments on Morning Ireland earlier.

You see, one can't just look at the pay rates isolation when comparing the PS here to their European counterparts. You've also got to consider the total cost of employing public servants, in particular the social dividend enjoyed by our European neightbours in terms of the higher quality health and education services they enjoy.

So Irish public servants are not actually over-paid when you factor in the low quality of public services, which just happen to be provided by the public servants themselves.

Its not a case of the PS being over-paid in spite of their under-preformance, rather the PS must be handsomely renumerated because of that very under-performance!

[hopi watcher]

A prize for the most creative justification of the pay disparity has to go to Jack O'Connor for his comments on Morning Ireland earlier.

You see, one can't just look at the pay rates isolation when comparing the PS here to their European counterparts. You've also got to consider the total cost of employing public servants, in particular the social dividend enjoyed by our European neightbours in terms of the higher quality health and education services they enjoy.

So Irish public servants are not actually over-paid when you factor in the low quality of public services, which just happen to be provided by the public servants themselves.

Its not a case of the PS being over-paid in spite of their under-preformance, rather the PS must be handsomely renumerated because of that very under-performance!

Such considerations, when comparing cross country wage rates, is not only normal but it would be rather stupid to ignore such factors. These consideration apply to all workers. A simple example is, if you need to go to a GP here you will have yo pay €50+ while in other countries that comes free at the point of delivery. See the point, or is the view from IBEC's basement restricting.

[Proposition Joe]

Such considerations, when comparing cross country wage rates, is not only normal but it would be rather stupid to ignore such factors.

I'm not advocating that we ignore such factors.

Rather I'm arguing against rewarding poor service delivery.

PS pay should be structured so as to inventize excellent services, not to compensate public servants for the poor quality of the service that they themselves provide.

These consideration apply to all workers. A simple example is, if you need to go to a GP here you will have yo pay €50+ while in other countries that comes free at the point of delivery. See the point, or is the view from IBEC's basement restricting.

And why can't it be free at the point of delivery here, just like in the UK?

Because it would be unaffordable due to the much higher rates of pay in the HSE as compared to NHS.

[hopi watcher]

I'm not advocating that we ignore such factors.

Rather I'm arguing against rewarding poor service delivery.

PS pay should be structured so as to inventize excellent services, not to compensate public servants for the poor quality of the service that they themselves provide.



And why can't it be free at the point of delivery here, just like in the UK?

Because it would be unaffordable due to the much higher rates of pay in the HSE as compared to NHS.

Your contention that the PS is responible for all our ills is really becoming tedious not to mention childish. We cannot afford a decent healthcare service becaus those pesky public sector workers are overpaid and ineffeicent!!! Well the news is, it would be wonderful of that was the case, the solution would be very easy, but alas that is not the case and scapegoating is a futile past time.
And again you cannot compare wage rates between NHS and HSE workers. The cost of living in the UK is way below what it is here. Can you not understand that simple point?

[wexfordman]

your contention that the ps is responible for all our ills is really becoming tedious not to mention childish. We cannot afford a decent healthcare service becaus those pesky public sector workers are overpaid and ineffeicent!!! Well the news is, it would be wonderful of that was the case, the solution would be very easy, but alas that is not the case and scapegoating is a futile past time.
And again you cannot compare wage rates between nhs and hse workers. The cost of living in the uk is way below what it is here. Can you not understand that simple point?

your a schoolboy playing hookie, right

[Watcher1]

Your contention that the PS is responible for all our ills is really becoming tedious not to mention childish. We cannot afford a decent healthcare service becaus those pesky public sector workers are overpaid and ineffeicent!!! Well the news is, it would be wonderful of that was the case, the solution would be very easy, but alas that is not the case and scapegoating is a futile past time.
And again you cannot compare wage rates between NHS and HSE workers. The cost of living in the UK is way below what it is here. Can you not understand that simple point?

And why is the cost of living so much higher here than in the UK? Time and again the statistics have showed that inflation has mainly been driven by government controlled sectors - education, healthcare, transport, energy etc. Our cost of living has risen so much over the past 10 to 15 years because inflation, driven by the public sector, has increased.

So what you are basically saying is that PS costs (mainly wages) can not be reduced because pS workers have to pay the costs that they have created. Give me a break man. The thing that you simply cannot ignopre is that we can not afford our public sector in the present guise. The only way to get this under control is to look at wages and or jobs.

Now I'm not advocating across the board cuts, but rather targeted ones. There are a large number of lower paid civil servants and the main pain will have to be felt by those over the average wage.

I dont think it matters that much anymore because the IMF will call the shots within the next 12 - 18 months depending on when NAMA get into full swing. Our national debt as at the end of last year was 50bn. The most it ever was was 40bn. FF and the NTMA did not reduce our national debt in rewal terms during the celtic tiger years. It was 35bn in 1995 and 35bn in 2007. In between it ranged from 40bn to 36bn. NAMA will probably cost us 50bn and we are due to borrow for current expenditure this year, what is it - 20bn? So thaqt will leave us with 120bn in national debvt by the end of this year if NAMA pays for the bank assets. Then what is the projection for government borrowing to pay for day to day country expenses next year? Is it 16bn or something like that? So that makes 140bn when you factor in the inadequacies of FFs forecasting.

Yes, the IMF will be here soon.

EDIT: National debt in 1995 was 38bn and 2007 was 38bn, not 35bn as mentioned above, apologies.

[bormotello]

And again you cannot compare wage rates between NHS and HSE workers. The cost of living in the UK is way below what it is here. Can you not understand that simple point?

Finland and Sweden are not cheaper then Ireland, but PS workers have smaller average salaries then their Irish colleagues

[hopi watcher]

And why is the cost of living so much higher here than in the UK? Time and again the statistics have showed that inflation has mainly been driven by government controlled sectors - education, healthcare, transport, energy etc. Our cost of living has risen so much over the past 10 to 15 years because inflation, driven by the public sector, has increased.

So what you are basically saying is that PS costs (mainly wages) can not be reduced because pS workers have to pay the costs that they have created. Give me a break man. The thing that you simply cannot ignopre is that we can not afford our public sector in the present guise. The only way to get this under control is to look at wages and or jobs.

Now I'm not advocating across the board cuts, but rather targeted ones. There are a large number of lower paid civil servants and the main pain will have to be felt by those over the average wage.

I dont think it matters that much anymore because the IMF will call the shots within the next 12 - 18 months depending on when NAMA get into full swing. Our national debt as at the end of last year was 50bn. The most it ever was was 40bn. FF and the NTMA did not reduce our national debt in rewal terms during the celtic tiger years. It was 35bn in 1995 and 35bn in 2007. In between it ranged from 40bn to 36bn. NAMA will probably cost us 50bn and we are due to borrow for current expenditure this year, what is it - 20bn? So thaqt will leave us with 120bn in national debvt by the end of this year if NAMA pays for the bank assets. Then what is the projection for government borrowing to pay for day to day country expenses next year? Is it 16bn or something like that? So that makes 140bn when you factor in the inadequacies of FFs forecasting.

Yes, the IMF will be here soon.

EDIT: National debt in 1995 was 38bn and 2007 was 38bn, not 35bn as mentioned above, apologies.

Suiffice to piont out to you that your little theory is blown away by the fact that Ireland's public sector is one of the leanest in Europe. The cost of living here is driven mainly by greed.