Prime Time last night

[FutureTaoiseach]

What is the govt (if anything) going to do about the cowboy operators in the English-language sector, who get Asians to spent 10's of thousands to come here on a student visa to 'study' in their 'English language schools' and then find out the school either doesn't exist, is not what it claimed to be, or will only renew their visa if they work in a sweatshop job?

Why did Senator Mary Henry refuse to appear on Prime Time to explain her support for Eurocollege? The use of Trinity College photos on English-language school websites without permission is especially disgraceful and misleading. It seems too that Minister Hanafin is trying to promote this industry abroad. I disagree with this decision, but especially because of what was shown on the programme.

At the very least, we need compulsory licensing of the sector and verification that they are what they say they are. Unless they are on a register of approved schools, the Irish embassies and consulates abroad should stop handing out student-visas like there's no tomorrow.

[St Disibod]

I must say I agree, and with Future Taoiseach that's saying something.

I didn't see the programme, but I've met plenty of foreigners, especially Chinese, who are being robbed by these schools. Indeed, I know several of them just act as rubber-stampers for Visas.

A licensing system is definetely needed.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I must say I agree, and with Future Taoiseach that's saying something.

I didn't see the programme, but I've met plenty of foreigners, especially Chinese, who are being robbed by these schools. Indeed, I know several of them just act as rubber-stampers for Visas.

A licensing system is definetely needed.

What do they intend doing when their visas run out?

[St Disibod]

I must say I agree, and with Future Taoiseach that's saying something.

I didn't see the programme, but I've met plenty of foreigners, especially Chinese, who are being robbed by these schools. Indeed, I know several of them just act as rubber-stampers for Visas.

A licensing system is definetely needed.

What do they intend doing when their visas run out?

They pay for another year and get it stamped again.

The government attempted to tackle the issue by limiting the number of hours a person on a student visa may work, so that staying in Ireland would only make sense if one was attending classes- but of course that just forced them to take up two or three jobs instead of one.

This was disastrous for all concerned. Employers end up with tired workers and workers will never get promoted while they only work a twenty hour week in any one place.

It was an odd way of tackling the issue. From my experience not only are student-visa workers highly skilled for the jobs they take up, they tend to spend their money in Ireland as opposed to sending it home. Irish businesses get to recycle the capital.

We should be improving their lot, not be making it harder for them. That means tackling the schools, not their visa conditions.

[FutureTaoiseach]

What is also utterly unacceptable is how the programme revealed that foreigners are getting an education at the taxpayer's expense by using a loophole. Part of the problem being that Japanese and Koreans can come here without having to register.

[MichaelHennigan]

I didn't see Prime Time but I have raised the issue in the past of commercial operations like Griffith College selling its services in places like Pakistan for large sums in local terms, to prospective students who are much more qualified than the courses they choose.

The inducement is the hope of getting a work visa in the European Union.

In December 2004 , Dundalk Business School, which termed itself a college of further education, was wound up by order of the High Court. A solicitor, in an affidavit, said he had been retained to act for 300 Indian students whose applications were processed through an Indian overseas student association, which had discharged about €450,000 in tuition fees to the school - and had sent another €150,000 to the school in support of visa applications which were unsuccessful.

The likes of Dundalk Business School - not exactly Harvard Business School or London Business School - but a fancy brochure, website, the lure of a European Union visa, can make a good business propisition.

July 2005 article:

The Irish education industry and international people trafficing

[barrym]

I must say I agree, and with Future Taoiseach that's saying something.

I didn't see the programme, but I've met plenty of foreigners, especially Chinese, who are being robbed by these schools. Indeed, I know several of them just act as rubber-stampers for Visas.

A licensing system is definetely needed.

What do they intend doing when their visas run out?

My wife is a qualified TEFL teacher who was involved with a school for a while. As soon as the school put up a web site they were inundated with requests from all over the world for a place - they were delighted until they discovered that what was really needed was a letter saying your accepted and the support for a visa. What really happens is they get this from the less reputable (in return for money presumably) and never turn up. They arrive, they present their letter and are let in. We can all assume that they have friends here.... I am NOT anti-immigrant but it just one of the many scams....

This in addition (or perhaps organised by the same scammers) to the genuine students who arrive and find no school....

Apropos of last night's stuff; the guy (who was on Prime Time) on Morning Ireland this am said "their" schools only took graduates who had additional quals in TEFL as teachers, not true - RELSA does not require one to be a graduate, CELTA does. The school my wife was associated with contacted the Dept of Ed who could offer no assistance at all on what was a proper qualification base for TEFL school teachers (or pupils!).

Last point, the Universities here are in on the TEFL act, they offer paid courses in TEFL, which are 'approved' by RELSA - which is itself a self regulating body, in other words the Univs are taking money from students for a course they don't themselves vet. It would appear that these courses are run in Univ. premises by Univ. staff 'out of hours'

Of course it needs regulating, but whom would you trust to do it??

Bye, Barry

[FutureTaoiseach]

Interesting that the "Internationalisation of Irish Educational Services Report" actually recommends compulsory registration of these education institutions. Have emailed Hanafin about it. Hope it gets replied to but probably won't due to arrogance.