Judges can pay pension levy voluntarily

[Furze]

Judges can pay pension levy voluntarily
The Chief Justice has said that arrangements have been made with the Revenue Commissioners to enable judges to pay the pension levy voluntarily.
The announcement was made today in a statement by Chief Justice John Murray.
Justice Murray said that he had contacted the Revenue Commissioners after the Act implementing the levy came into effect.
He said that some legal questions arose concerning the
establishment of such an arrangement but they have now been resolved.
The payments can now be made 'in the immediate future as soon as the procedural steps are in place', the statement said.
The pension levy put in place in the past few months does not apply to judges due to the constitutional provision that prohibits a reduction in judicial salaries.
However, each individual judge can decide whether he or she will make the contribution.

Why the Revenue Commissioners ? Do they pay them ?

Love to hear the legal argument on the "legal questions"

[Keith-M]

This should have been challenged. The problem is who can judge something that impacts judges?

[nonpartyboy]

Window dressing,the decent judges will give up their levy,while the greedy ones laugh away to themselves.If the constitution needs to be changed,change it.It the principle of the thing,same goes for the president.Every other public servant has to pay up no questions yet we have to listen to how great some people are because they "voluntarily" give up theirs

[orbit]

This should have been challenged.

I agree. I think there is a good chance it would have succeeded.

[Lefournier]

Window dressing,the decent judges will give up their levy,while the greedy ones laugh away to themselves.If the constitution needs to be changed,change it.It the principle of the thing,same goes for the president.Every other public servant has to pay up no questions yet we have to listen to how great some people are because they "voluntarily" give up theirs

Total moral failure by the Chief Justice: he knows there is no constitutional bar and the Government let them off the hook. The judiciary think they can hide behind "confidentiality". Let the people of Ireland make this clear to them: pay up like everyone else and stop hiding behind your robes

If they can't bring themselves to contribute in this way, what chance they will send some rich and powerful people to jail?

Mr Justice Murray’s statement added that the contribution was constitutionally a matter for each individual judge, and that any arrangements would be confidential between the judge and the Revenue Commissioners.

Some legal sources said such confidentiality was necessary to avoid a perception that individual judges were seeking public approval or career advancement by publicly paying the levy, and it was feared such a perception would compromise their independence.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking81.htm

The legal issues are covered in an earlier thread:
http://www.politics.ie/current-affai...ml#post1526773

[revereie]

Like Ray Burke or Liam Lawlor ? (believe me when i say I'm not crying over them but I do believe in judicial impartiality)

[ivnryn]

If the constitution needs to be changed,change it.It the principle of the thing,same goes for the president.

How much is a referendum vs how much would the levy on the judges make? Maybe we could run it at the same time as the Lisbon one .

[cyberianpan]

Well this is the fundamental constitutional issue:

Bunreacht
[FONT=Verdana]
[COLOR=navy]Article 35 [/COLOR][/FONT]
...
[FONT=Verdana]5.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][COLOR=Red][FONT=Verdana]The remuneration of a judge shall not be reduced during his continuance in office.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]Article 36 [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Subject to the foregoing provisions of this Constitution relating to the Courts, the following matters shall be regulated in accordance with law, that is to say: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]i.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana]the number of judges of the Supreme Court, and of the High Court, [COLOR=Red]the remuneration[/COLOR], age of retirement [COLOR=Red]and pensions[/COLOR] of such judges, [/FONT]

The OED definition of [FONT=Verdana]remuneration is : (mass noun) : Money paid for works or a service.

And indeed above they separate the concept of [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]remuneration & pensions ([/FONT][FONT=Verdana]remuneration must be paid, nothing said about pensions bar that they be regulated by law)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]
Now this legal advice sounds very dodgy ...
1) a pension levy on public servants is fine as it is not a breach of contract as pension is not part of salary
but
2) on the judiciary it would be a breach of the constitution ?


cYp
[/FONT]

[TommyO'Brien]

Total moral failure by the Chief Justice: he knows there is no constitutional bar and the Government let them off the hook.

Yes there is. Their salaries and that of the president, rightly cannot be reduced. That is because otherwise governments could seek to intimidate them into giving judgements and rulings favourable to the government with the threat "if you don't we'll cut your salary." It is a bit of a grey area on pensions but one leaning towards the legal advice available to the judges.

The judiciary think they can hide behind "confidentiality". Let the people of Ireland make this clear to them: pay up like everyone else and stop hiding behind your robes

Confidentiality is quite right in this case. What arrangements they make should be between the revenue commissioners and themselves privately, and not be told to government. Otherwise, if it is announced it would be legally challengeable on the basis that the government was getting around the constitutional protection that indicates the government must not and cannot have any role in a reduction of salary.

If they can't bring themselves to contribute in this way, what chance they will send some rich and powerful people to jail?

A superficial and ill-informed comment.

Fine Gael did come up with a better suggestion last week, that in lieu of the pension levy, which would only save a couple of thousand, the judges should work out of term clearly the backlog of assylum cases. If that was done the savings would run into millions, as the current delay causes a fortune.

[an asal]

Oh how generous of the Judges ( Taxes are for little people) More crap from the good and the great.