In light of the continuing denial by Russia of one of the crimes of the century committed by communists in killing almost the entire officer class of Poland at Katyn, and that Poland is now our fellow EU member, should the Irish Government not now join Poland in demanding a full acknowledgement of the guilt and demand a formal recognition of the truth from the russian authorities?
The truth of Katyn is long overdue greater recognition; and should be a matter of EU wide concern.
It totally depends on the Russians.
All in all, it's not a secret anymore that the Red Army is responsible for more deaths than the Nazis.
The problem about it all is that Russia still refuses to uncover it's disgusting role, which was not any better than Germany's role, in WW2.
Russia still keeps strict censorship:
My Russian friends tell me that the Katyn massacre or any war crime committed by the Russians in WW2 are NOT mentioned in any Russian history book.
Luckily, more and more facts (the Katyn massacre included) are coming out and Russia, who sees herself as the hero of WW2, is losing her reputation more and more.
My parents, who were school kids in the 70ies (communism time) were told lies in history lessons.
They were told that the Russians saved Poland from the Germans and they've never heard of the Hitler- Stalin pact then.
The Polish/ Czech/ Slowakian/ etc. history books were written by Russians and if anybody tried to bring the light of truth into these lies, could either have been punished or even brought to a concentration camp in Siberia.
Well, the problem about this is that Russia yet has no demands to join the EU.and should be a matter of EU wide concern.
In Croatia for instance, war crime is an important problem that needs to be solved- but the difference here is that Croatia wants to join the EU.
If Serbia had any chances to be a member of the EU, she would have exactly the same problems to solve.
I believe that the discussion about the Katyn massacre will last perhaps about a century because the Russians are still not willing to recognize their guilt.
About 40 years, the Russians said that the Germans were guilty for the Katyn massacre.
Honestly, I love the Russian folk- there cannot be a greater friendship between a Russian and a Pole, but when it come to politics it's better to keep distance.
It actually a really important topic for everybody: Poland, Russia and the whole EU and I wonder why this has not been discussed before May 1st 2004.
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well has Poland admitted and accepted its own war crimes in ethnically cleansing Germans out of majority-German areas (e.g. Prussia) that were given to Poland after the war?
I remember there was a museum/series of rooms in Auschwitz dedicated to examining Poland's role in WW2: the first room dealt with Poland's defeat in 3 weeks, then the remaining 3 or 4 rooms 'explained' how Poland wasn't really defeated at all and fought on in various ways (e.g. resistance fighters, Warsaw uprising, etc). Now if the Polish state is going to claim that the actions of partisans in fighting the German Army is an official part of Polish history, then it follows that the actions of those same partisans in raping thousands and ethnically cleansing millions in the first three years after the war should also be a part of official Polish history - yet I didn't see any mention of that in the museum in Auschwitz...
It was the Red Army who committed these war crimes in Polish territory.well has Poland admitted and accepted its own war crimes in ethnically cleansing Germans out of majority-German areas (e.g. Prussia) that were given to Poland after the war?
Even after WW2 Poland was no free state until the final defeat of communism in the 1990ies.
So, Poles are not guilty for that and that was the reason why Poland had no problems when entering the EU as it has Croatia currently.
However, that's not the topic here.
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Come on Lilac, the Germans were ethnically cleansed by the Victors after WWII from old German provinces in Prussia, Pomerania(some), Silesia, Sudetenland and other places too.Originally Posted by Lilac
Also were there not many Polish soldiers serving with the Red Army in WWII? General Berling for example and his men. Also Polish Communist Partisans who fought the Germans behind the lines.
Also one of the Polish Resistance groups was basically a Right Wing Front.
The Home Army fought well though and the Warsaw Uprising was an epic of Poland's History.
So my point is who exactly has got a clean pair of hands?
Europa Conventus Delenda Est
Poland has the clean pair of hands.
nopeAlso were there not many Polish soldiers serving with the Red Army in WWII?
No, because Poland was divided and how could a Pole have fought on Soviet side against his own country?Also Polish Communist Partisans who fought the Germans behind the lines.
Exactly, by the Red Army.Come on Lilac, the Germans were ethnically cleansed by the Victors after WWII from old German provinces in Prussia, Pomerania(some), Silesia, Sudetenland and other places too.
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the actions of independent group of Polish partisans in carrying out war crimes against German civilians is well documented in Germany, even if it is totally ignored in Poland, and even if the Polish Government tells its own citizens that they have no responsibility for anyting that happened between 1939 and 1990.It was the Red Army who committed these war crimes in Polish territory.
That's wrong.
Poland didn't had any right to do anything in their own country.
In the conference of Jalta, Stalin got the right to rule over Poland, but not fully occupy her.
The same time the Soviets chased the Germans from Polish territory, the Red Army occupied whole Poland and took her under control.
So, Stalin betrayed the agreement of Jalta.
You can trust me, a student of Eastern European history and politics and slavonic languages! :wink:
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Is in today's Czech Republic by the way.Sudetenland
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There a book due to be released in Germany in few weeks by a Bavarian history student. He found records of reports send the Bavarian arch bishops by the parish priests in the outlying villages on Munich in the days and weeks after the American arrival in 1945.
It will catalogue an apparent policy of rape and murder by the American 'liberators'. Apparently every priest reported at least 5 murders in every parish by the American soldiers. This has surprised by American propaganda. They switched attention form their war crimes on to that of the Red Army. Remember 20million Russians gave their lives fighting against Nazi Germany. A far higher number than any other country in WW2.
Am just recently back from Munich where I met the author briefly. The content is explosive and expect fireworks when it’s finally published this summer.
"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative."
Oscar Wilde
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