The era of Big Government

[St Disibod]

Ten years ago yesterday, Bill Clinton turned his back on the Democrats' formula since the 1930's and declared that "the era of big government is over".

This is the mantra of so many people. The likes of the Freedom Institute love nothing more than to hear politicians bash government.

However, every single election tends to hinge on three issues beyond the economy- health, education and justice; three areas were I believe big government is part of the solution.

We need more doctors and consultants removed from the private sector. We need hospitals where an outside authority dictates the standards of hygiene and cleanliness. We need mass, regular and state-paid health screenings for the entire population.

We need more teachers with more money and smaller class sizes. We need schools to teach the values of physical activity in areas where the community fails- for girls and boys. We need more money for our colleges, institutes of technology and universities, so that we can compete at the highest levels for intellectual property and research.

We need more Gardaí with more powers and more accountability. We need judges to have the flexibility to give lengthy sentences when they are due and so we need bigger prisons and more programmes of rehabilitation and treatment for those with addictions. We need to move those in prison with psychological problems into places where they can be helped as well as kept.

We need, in one phrase, bigger government. And we need to pay for it.

[JCSkinner]

What you are referring to are the apparatus of the state. We need a bigger state mechanism and smaller, more efficient government.
Scrap the Senate, and make the Dail sit five days a week, 48 weeks a year. You could usefully reduce the number of TDs too. Introduce referenda twice yearly on a raft of issues of social importance.
Basically, we need to boost things like our health service and that will take additional staff and resources. Bigger state, smaller government.

[St Disibod]

What you are referring to are the apparatus of the state.

Strictly true. But given that I'm taking Bill Clinton's speech as my basis I adopted American parlance for the argument. Any decision taken in Washington and enforced by the apparatus of the US Government tends to be referred to as Government. And it is that that many oppose.

If we want to get really pedantic I could point out that what you refer to is in fact the legislature rather than government.

I'm treating government rather broadly in this thread, it's designed to encompass the politicians, the civil servants and most public servants. It also refers to their budget and powers.

[coconut]

We need more doctors and consultants removed from the private sector. We need hospitals where an outside authority dictates the standards of hygiene and cleanliness. We need mass, regular and state-paid health screenings for the entire population.

No. We don't. People should be able to get a check-up whenever they want, and not be forced to. If they want to avoid getting checked up and die of prostate cancer or something, that's their choice.

We need more teachers with more money and smaller class sizes. We need schools to teach the values of physical activity in areas where the community fails- for girls and boys. We need more money for our colleges, institutes of technology and universities, so that we can compete at the highest levels for intellectual property and research.

What we need is a complete educational system reform. The current system is completely outdated.

We need more Gardaí with more powers and more accountability. We need judges to have the flexibility to give lengthy sentences when they are due and so we need bigger prisons and more programmes of rehabilitation and treatment for those with addictions. We need to move those in prison with psychological problems into places where they can be helped as well as kept.

We do not need to grant the Gardaí more powers. The last thing we need is to start walking down the road of a police state. More accountability, yes, but not more powers. We don't need bigger prisons. However, I agree with more rehabilitation programmes and help for addicts.

We need, in one phrase, bigger government. And we need to pay for it.

Why?

[St Disibod]

No. We don't. People should be able to get a check-up whenever they want, and not be forced to.

I did not use the word mandatory.

What we need is a complete educational system reform. The current system is completely outdated.

I have major problems with the education system, but few ideas for a future direction that I feel hold water. If you've got any I'd be interested, but it would probably require a differant thread.

We do not need to grant the Gardaí more powers... We don't need bigger prisons.

I disagree. People get off scot free for drink driving because of silly technicalities. Kids get off scot free for shoplifting because the Gardaí know the courts will let them walk straight back out and so they're not worth the paperwork. The paperwork needs to be reduced, as much as possible done by civilians and the prison space has to be there for those who are a danger to themselves, their families and society.

Remember, if the prison space had been there, John 'Frog' Ward would be alive today in prison, and Padraig Nally would be in his home.

We need, in one phrase, bigger government. And we need to pay for it.

Why?

For all the reasons I've laid out above, and then some.

[coconut]

I did not use the word mandatory.

The use of the term "mass" implied, in my opinion, "mandatory" also. Apologies.

I have major problems with the education system, but few ideas for a future direction that I feel hold water. If you've got any I'd be interested, but it would probably require a differant thread.

Uh oh. Not another education thread. No. My eyes are bleeding!

People get off scot free for drink driving because of silly technicalities.

Pfft, now all the Gardaí have to do is suspect a person of having had a few drinks before being able to breathalyse them. I admit drink driving is a problem but I fear that this may be used as an excuse to give the Gardaí unnecessary power.

Kids get off scot free for shoplifting because the Gardaí know the courts will let them walk straight back out and so they're not worth the paperwork. The paperwork needs to be reduced, as much as possible done by civilians and the prison space has to be there for those who are a danger to themselves, their families and society.

I agree that paperwork should be reduced - God knows my family's feeling the effects of bureaucracy at the moment.

Kids shoplifting what? A chocolate bar or a tray of platinum jewellery? The former is hardly worth a Garda doing any more than scaring them.

[St Disibod]

Pfft, now all the Gardaí have to do is suspect a person of having had a few drinks before being able to breathalyse them. I admit drink driving is a problem but I fear that this may be used as an excuse to give the Gardaí unnecessary power.

If one hasn't broken the law, one should have no problem breathing into a breathalyser.

Kids shoplifting what? A chocolate bar or a tray of platinum jewellery? The former is hardly worth a Garda doing any more than scaring them.

Even if it's chocolate. A kid who's been "scared" twice by the gardaí has probably learned a valuable lesson. He can steal things and only ever get warnings.

[coconut]

If one hasn't broken the law, one should have no problem breathing into a breathalyser.

I hear this a lot and while it does make sense, it is the very stance that can let any kind of police state spring up, something of which we should be very wary of, considering what's happening in the USA and England.

Even if it's chocolate. A kid who's been "scared" twice by the gardaí has probably learned a valuable lesson. He can steal things and only ever get warnings.

Extra powers are hardly something the Gardaí need to tackle ten year olds taking Macaroons from newsagents.

Bleedin' kids.

[Gladstone]

What Clinton meant was FOCUSED government. SO FOR example he cut 100 000 civil servents but put 100 000 cops on the streets and tried to introduce Universal Healthcare.

His point was in his own acceptance speach for the nomination "there is not a government programme for every problem", thats a long way from the Libertarian and Liberal mantra of "government IS the problem"

[FutureTaoiseach]

Well it depends really on the policy area you are talking about. Explained:

A: We need bigger government in terms of enforcing the labour laws of this country where we have a pathetic and risible 21 inspectors (the number not the personnel ) 'enforcing' them. The impression gained from this low number is that the Government is content to turn a blind eye to their enforcement and the possible displacement and suppression of wage growth they entail.

B: We need smaller government in terms of the size of the public-sector. It makes no sense for a government to own an airline, still less for it to own a peat-processing company (Bord na Mona). Aer Lingus should be sold to avoid the Government's time being wasted on some ludicrous demands for 30% pay rises a la ASTI in the future. Dublin Airport shouldn't be closed down again for silly reasons. Strikes should be a last resort, and tend not to be in the public-sector, unfortunately. We should also sell ESB's power-generation capability, while holding onto the grid, so as to avoid mistakes made in the sale of Eircom. Bord Gais should also be sold off and the market liberalised so we can choose another supplier.

C: The state should provide incentives for the building of private-hospitals. This can only take the pressure off the overwhelmed public-hospital system and reduce the numbers on trollies if accompanied by supply-side measures like immigration controls. In that sense we need a smaller state in that the State shouldn't be seen as the be all and end all of solving the health-service's problems. However, the State should introduce compulsory health-insurance on the basis of means-testing, where those below the threshold should have their premiums paid by the State. Consumers though should retain their right to choose their insurer so as to avoid monopolism and consequent rip-offs. Risk-equalisation should be scrapped and the VHI privatised.