Dutch MPs to decide on burqa ban

[Simon.D]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4616664.stm



Is such a ban in anyway progressive?

Banning the burqa could lead to further persectution, with them being kept at home, forbidden from being seen in public as it's contrary to their interpretation of the Quran.

At least with the burqa they have some freedom..

Also it's another good fancy dress option down the drain..

[NGTR]

Banning such items is definetly not progressive rather it is regressive on a person's right to live their life by their own religious convictions within the law. More trouble is caused by such bans than is stopped.

Such forced integration does not assist in generating a connection between an immigrant and their adopted country or forcing an existing citizen to chosse between their faith and their country.

Religious tolerance and education is far more benficial to society as a whole

[david]

Sigh...yet another idiocy resulting from this religion nonsense.

It raises questions about the need to be recognised in the event of a crime; about why you should want to go to live in a society where you deliberately don't want to fit in at least to some degree and where sexes are notionally equal; about what she wears when it's raining; about equal opportunities for those who choose to wear such weird clothes; about how she smokes a cigarette; about the human race's continued stupidity etc etc.

[JCSkinner]

You can be an impeccably pious muslim without a burqa. This is a cultural tradition in certain countries justified by religion, not the other way around.
The Dutch are right to liberate those mulsim women in their country whose menfolk obtain to such archaic, outdated and repressive cultural practices.
The burqa is as much a psychological affront as female circumcision is a physical one. We rightly reject the latter, even though some quarters attempt to justify it on grounds of religious belief. For similar reasons, it is legitimate to seek the back of the burqa.

[Simon.D]

You can be an impeccably pious muslim without a burqa. This is a cultural tradition in certain countries justified by religion, not the other way around.
The Dutch are right to liberate those mulsim women in their country whose menfolk obtain to such archaic, outdated and repressive cultural practices.
The burqa is as much a psychological affront as female circumcision is a physical one. We rightly reject the latter, even though some quarters attempt to justify it on grounds of religious belief. For similar reasons, it is legitimate to seek the back of the burqa.

Yes.. But will they be liberated? Will the men folk who currently advise them to wear the burqa, now politely ask that they remain indoors, so as never to be seen in public..

In their eyes they are in defiance of God, if they don't wear it..

Verse 24.31 reads: "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimars over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss."

* Khimar in Arabic (and at the time of the revelation of this verse) means "head-covering." Therefore the verse says for the believing women to draw their "head-coverings over their bosoms."

[Jim84]

In last months Guardian there was several feature written my Muslim women who basically where saying that it actually gave them more freedom ... more power ... more control over their own lives.

[david]

Jeepers, says it all doesn't it, Simon, the 'shame of sex'.

[pluralist]

Yes.. But will they be liberated? Will the men folk who currently advise them to wear the burqa, now politely ask that they remain indoors, so as never to be seen in public..

In their eyes they are in defiance of God, if they don't wear it..

Verse 24.31 reads: "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimars over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss."

* Khimar in Arabic (and at the time of the revelation of this verse) means "head-covering." Therefore the verse says for the believing women to draw their "head-coverings over their bosoms."

No, sorry, wrong. The head scarf can adequately cover that proviso.

Malaysia is a mainly Muslim contry right? And the majority of the Muslim women there wear headscarves - but not the full burqa.

[Simon.D]

No, sorry, wrong. The head scarf can adequately cover that proviso.

Malaysia is a mainly Muslim contry right? And the majority of the Muslim women there wear headscarves - but not the full burqa.

Why don't these women wear headscarves so? They're a fundamentalist, "evangelical", kind of muslim.. They believe the Quran demands that women wear a khimar in the literal sense, i.e. to cover the whole head.. Or else they're at odds with Allah.. a head scarf just won't do..

In seeing a female face, the men can't help but conjure up shameful thoughts of sexual desire

It's not right that women should be forced to wear it.. but what happens if the they're forbidden from wearing it by law? They still belive that they can't go parading their sultry faces in public..

[Fiacc]

It's a pretty illiberal idea. I am surprised at the Dutch. After all they, and we, allow people to walk around with their faces and bodies mutilated with metal objects sticking out of them. I would imagine the sight of these weird and wonderful beings would also frighten the children.

Nobody has a right to tell anyone walking down the street what they should be wearing, but there are many circumstances where the burqa should be banned. People working in the armed forces or the police or just about any organisation dealing with the public should wear the prescribed regulation dress. Imagine trying to deal with someone who looks like that character in the film 'The Invisible Man'. Most especially it should be banned in all educational institutions. Most human communication is non-verbal. It is vitally important to a teacher to be able to see the faces of his/her students. Otherwise it is simply impossible to gauge the efficacy of one's teaching methods. And imagine the effect on students if the teacher is wearing a burqa! There are human rights and there are human rights. Some are absolute. Most are conditional and circumscribed. This is one of them.