1700 workers go on strike in UK over jobs for foreign workers

[Oblivion]

These strikes won't change a damn thing. Companies will continue to import cheap labour because... well... because they can. "We aren't breaking the law!" they cry. And they're right, they aren't.

The cheap labour bonanza will continue until Western nations are in a Depression of such magnitude, with unemployment at such dizzy heights, and labour force morale in such desperate despair, as for it no longer to be "economically viable" to import cheap labour. ( Spain - a nation that's now paying immigrants to leave, and has unemployment heading for 15% this year - is only just beginning to experience the "fun" ).

The race to the bottom is very much ON.

There were many, before, who believed that Globalisation would mean the First World and the Third World's living standards would end-up meeting somewhere in between. This was the "nice" interpretation. It was wrong.

It turns out, it's more of a case of the First World taking an irreversible nose-dive, until an equilibrium is established somewhere near the bottom. When British workers have become so desperate, as to compete with Africans for cleaning jobs, when cash-strapped American students start competing with Mexicans for jobs picking crops, the "balance" will be reached.

[barnaby rudge]

The current furore in the UK on the 'foreign workers' issue is indicative of the unsustainability of the EU super-state project. Whether they brow beat the Irish electorate through on the second count will be irrelevant in the long term. It's undemocratic and can not stand. The EU'ers have over reached them on the Constitution/Treaty just as it is currently demonstrable that they have on the 'Movement of Labour' issue. No society is going to stand passively by and see itself economically marginalised while the local employment is filled with foreign workers. Strictures about xenophobia and racism have been used for decades to suppress the debate on the immigration/labour movement issue and have begun to lose all credibility and not before time. I'm not disputing that Irish labour markets exposure to non Irish work ethics and skill levels will have had a positive effect and if judiciously maintained could continue to do so but the parachuting in of hundreds of foreign nationals to the exclusion of appropriately skilled locals as is currently being done in Total Lindsey Refinery is immoral and cannot be allowed to pass. Remember this is all at the behest of ‘Business’ and business is about making money whatever the consequences. I recall that early in his presidency Jack Kennedy had a dispute with US steel makers over a price hike that he regarded as politically motivated. He commented at that time thus “My father once told that all business men were bastards but I never believed him ‘till now.” Well he should have believed his pa – who was one if anybody was - and SO SHOULD WE.

[Thac0man]

The strike is about the fact that there are thousands of local building workers - both English and foreign - who are unemployed - and the contractors are attempting to bring in foreign workers below the agreed industry rates of pay in an attempt to make more profit on their contract. The media have latched onto the dispute in an effort to embarrass Brwon by using his statement 'British jobs for British workers' to beat him over the head with. Some of the workers have also have also picked up on this slogan to drive home the point to Brown. Now I am not saying that every worker involved in this dispute has the same attitude - some clearly have adopted a nationalist position on this - but they most definitely are in a minority.

So to be precise, this strike is about thew use of foreign labour, not class struggle. Thankyou for recognising that. As for your claim that those who are being nationalist are "a minority", that is a self serving claim being made by socialists and at odds with all independant media coverage and all spokesmen and workers who are particpating in said strike - including the head of UNITE.

No it is not - local skilled workers are English and other nationalities. Socialists have always supported local workers getting employment in local industries - rather than workers being forced to travel thousands of miles in some cases to get work. The only reason companies bring in workers from distant places is in an effort to drive down local wages and boost profits.

That has only recently become an issue now that the UK economy is contracting. Irish Unions came to this realisation earlier than their British counterparts, but UK Unions do seem to be over compenstating now to make up loss ground. Worker 'Displacement' is a very recent national issue in the UK as regards how seriously it has been taken.

For your information the Socialist Workers Party have attacked the strike. In contrast - a member of the Socialist Party was one of six representatives elected to the strike committee by the workers. If the SP was so out of touch with the views and feelings of the workers this would not have happened. So the information I am outlining here is coming directly from one of the leaders of this strike and not from soundbites manipulated by the media - a media that has consistantly over the past 30 years done their best to discredit workers and their representatives and to push the neo-liberal agenda that has got us into this mess.

They may have attacked the strike, but that again only shows (as I have claimed) how out of touch full-time 'sociaists' are with the working classes. The views you have relayed by the SP member on the Stike committee points to a man seriously out of his deapth. And again what you are relating is what suits the image and needs of the socialist movement and does not reflect the concerns of workers. Since this thread began you have even amended your stance to suit.

Now it is possible that this dispute could degenerate into an attack on foreign workers - but that is not the case at the moment and, despite what the media are attempting to portray, is not the most likely scenario. The British establishment, the British media, the British political system and right-wing neo-con hacks on this board and elsewhere would love for this dispute to degenerate into an open and blatant attack on foreign workers. Why? - because it would serve their interests to have workers attacking each other rather than attacking those who are responsible for getting us into this unholy mess of greed and profit and economic chaos - a crisis that they will attempt to force working class people to pay for.

That paragraph means nothing. There is no right wing bogey man out there manipulating this. Only the New Labour spin machine has invoked the BNP and that is frankly an insult (echoed by Socialists) of the workers out on strike. It is interesting that in the ranks of Socialism, the SP is more in line with New Labour than UNITE. The SP should be very careful here least they suffer a backlash from those they seem to see as unwashed and inarticulate. Because that would play into the hands of people like the BNP.

If the workers were actually given an opportunity to explain what they mean rather than the media taking a 10 second sound bite we might actually get the real message - but then again - why give workers a platform to put the blame for this crisis where it firmly belongs - much better the use what you want to give your message - rather than theirs.

The part I have highlighted there is again exactly what the Socialist party seems to be doing. "Don't listen to the workers, listen to us". Only one in six of the strike committee is SP, so why is it you think SP should be the ones filtering what the public should be hearing from the workers? High handed to say the least.

[dandyspencer]

Expect Ireland to be invaded by Millions of Brits thanks to the UK government, as we are the only ones in Europe who offers decent wages and are prepared to bend over backwards to the immigrant!


go and work elsewhere in Europe if you are unhappy
Lord Mandelson enraged unions and Labour MPs last night by accusing wildcat strikers of "protectionism" and claiming they could turn the recession into a full-blown depression.

The Business Secretary inflamed the dispute over foreign workers by suggesting that protesters could go and work elsewhere in Europe if they were unhappy.As the mediator Acas was called in to try to prevent more unofficial strikes planned for tomorrow, the peer issued a statement that failed to damp down growing industrial unrest.

His support for free movement of workers in the European Union was also at odds with Gordon Brown's 2007 promise to safeguard "British jobs for British workers", a phrase which has been turned against the Prime Minister by protesters.

In a statement issued from the world economic forum in Davos, Lord Mandelson said: "I understand people's concerns about jobs and it is important to make sure that both domestic UK law and European rules are being applied properly and fairly. But it would be a huge mistake to retreat from a policy where, within the rules, UK companies can operate in Europe and European companies can operate here. Protectionism would be a sure-fire way of turning recession into depression."

You can go and work in Europe, Mandelson tells strikers - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

[Big Bobo]

The strike is about the fact that there are thousands of local building workers - both English and foreign - who are unemployed - and the contractors are attempting to bring in foreign workers below the agreed industry rates of pay in an attempt to make more profit on their contract. The media have latched onto the dispute in an effort to embarrass Brwon by using his statement 'British jobs for British workers' to beat him over the head with. Some of the workers have also have also picked up on this slogan to drive home the point to Brown. Now I am not saying that every worker involved in this dispute has the same attitude - some clearly have adopted a nationalist position on this - but they most definitely are in a minority.


No it is not - local skilled workers are English and other nationalities. Socialists have always supported local workers getting employment in local industries - rather than workers being forced to travel thousands of miles in some cases to get work. The only reason companies bring in workers from distant places is in an effort to drive down local wages and boost profits.


For your information the Socialist Workers Party have attacked the strike. In contrast - a member of the Socialist Party was one of six representatives elected to the strike committee by the workers. If the SP was so out of touch with the views and feelings of the workers this would not have happened. So the information I am outlining here is coming directly from one of the leaders of this strike and not from soundbites manipulated by the media - a media that has consistantly over the past 30 years done their best to discredit workers and their representatives and to push the neo-liberal agenda that has got us into this mess.

Now it is possible that this dispute could degenerate into an attack on foreign workers - but that is not the case at the moment and, despite what the media are attempting to portray, is not the most likely scenario. The British establishment, the British media, the British political system and right-wing neo-con hacks on this board and elsewhere would love for this dispute to degenerate into an open and blatant attack on foreign workers. Why? - because it would serve their interests to have workers attacking each other rather than attacking those who are responsible for getting us into this unholy mess of greed and profit and economic chaos - a crisis that they will attempt to force working class people to pay for.


If the workers were actually given an opportunity to explain what they mean rather than the media taking a 10 second sound bite we might actually get the real message - but then again - why give workers a platform to put the blame for this crisis where it firmly belongs - much better the use what you want to give your message - rather than theirs.

It's a great post but unfortunately will be lost on that ape.

[gnash1970]

Fair play to you. You are as Irish as an Irish-born citizen. This is typical from the PC-brigade, especially in the Irish Left. They want to move towards a Eurostate, and part of getting there is to play down and erode separate national-sentiments in the EU member states. This denigration of the Irish Diaspora is part of that agenda. Had the Irish-American community considered themselves as mere "foreigners" rather than having a dual-identity, they would not have been so supportive of the Irish Peace Process over the years e.g. Adams visa, sanctions against the old RUC, Congressional hearings of Rosemary Nelson at the Foreign Relations Committee etc. Fair play to you, and enough of the denigration of our Diaspora by the post-nationalists.

This is one of the many manifestations of feenxp, FutureTaoiseach. See also dandyspencer, Dr Kildamore, truthfinder, expexs, planetX, irelandproud and many more. I'd be wary of allying yourself too closely with a white supremacist proven liar like this guy. He has at various stages on this site claimed to be a returned emigrant from Australia, a doctor, voluntarily living off the dole after quitting his job because financially it makes sense, unemployed and desperate for work and countless other bullsh*t stories that ALL are rooted in his hatred of foreigners. Using his DarkWatcer ID on Stormfront he's a little more open about his attitude to "n*g-nogs". That MigrationWatch site, which you were quick to distance yourself from once you actually understood what it was about, was his semi-literate baby.

And if you don't see any hypocrisy in this guy's suggestion that British jobs be reserved for British workers when his own family emigrated to England to work (or indeed in Catalpa's salivating at the prospect of similar strikes breaking out here), then I don't know what to tell you.

[CookieMonster]

This is one of the many manifestations of feenxp, FutureTaoiseach. See also dandyspencer, Dr Kildamore, truthfinder, expexs, planetX, irelandproud and many more. I'd be wary of allying yourself too closely with a white supremacist proven liar like this guy. He has at various stages on this site claimed to be a returned emigrant from Australia, a doctor, voluntarily living off the dole after quitting his job because financially it makes sense, unemployed and desperate for work and countless other bullsh*t stories that ALL are rooted in his hatred of foreigners. Using his DarkWatcer ID on Stormfront he's a little more open about his attitude to "n*g-nogs". That MigrationWatch site, which you were quick to distance yourself from once you actually understood what it was about, was his semi-literate baby.

And if you don't see any hypocrisy in this guy's suggestion that British jobs be reserved for British workers when his own family emigrated to England to work (or indeed in Catalpa's salivating at the prospect of similar strikes breaking out here), then I don't know what to tell you.

Future Taoiseach is nobody but Future Taoiseach.

[FutureTaoiseach]

This is one of the many manifestations of feenxp, FutureTaoiseach. See also dandyspencer, Dr Kildamore, truthfinder, expexs, planetX, irelandproud and many more. I'd be wary of allying yourself too closely with a white supremacist proven liar like this guy. He has at various stages on this site claimed to be a returned emigrant from Australia, a doctor, voluntarily living off the dole after quitting his job because financially it makes sense, unemployed and desperate for work and countless other bullsh*t stories that ALL are rooted in his hatred of foreigners. Using his DarkWatcer ID on Stormfront he's a little more open about his attitude to "n*g-nogs". That MigrationWatch site, which you were quick to distance yourself from once you actually understood what it was about, was his semi-literate baby.

And if you don't see any hypocrisy in this guy's suggestion that British jobs be reserved for British workers when his own family emigrated to England to work (or indeed in Catalpa's salivating at the prospect of similar strikes breaking out here), then I don't know what to tell you.

And how was I to know his other manifestations? I oppose and condemn white supremacism. What I was replying to was the claim that the relevant user was a "foreigner" despite having Irish ancestry. That is untrue. If you have Irish ancestry, and especially Irish parentage (which he claims to have), then under Irish law you are entitled to Irish citizenship. In that context he is Irish. Don't twist what I'm saying to imply therefore I must agree with all his views. Look at the strange alliance of Harney and Gormley in the present govt, before telling me people can only agree on somethings if they agree on everything.

The issue is one of cheap labour, and in that context, Westerners have little worry about wage-based competition from fellow Westerners, because we come from high-wage societies that makes a threat of cheap labour competition from other Westerners unlikely. People from countries of origin of cheap labour is another matter. In that context, I would not resort to using phraseology like "Irish jobs for Irish people", because Westerners do not constitute cheap labour. Now you will say it's the fault of the bosses not the workers, and that may be true. But the fact remains that these Dickensian bosses would not be able to do this without a supply of cheap labour. The argument, as far as I am concerned, is one of policy, and it is policy - not ethnic-minorities - that I am criticising. And to the Left I say this - if you insist on silencing discussion on this matter, then you are effectively colluding in exploitation and displacement, because these bosses don't want the issue of the race to the bottom being discussed. Down with PCness and limiting freedom of speech.

[gnash1970]

And how was I to know his other manifestations? I oppose and condemn white supremacism. What I was replying to was the claim that the relevant user was a "foreigner" despite having Irish ancestry. That is untrue. If you have Irish ancestry, and especially Irish parentage (which he claims to have), then under Irish law you are entitled to Irish citizenship. In that context he is Irish. Don't twist what I'm saying to imply therefore I must agree with all his views. Look at the strange alliance of Harney and Gormley in the present govt, before telling me people can only agree on somethings if they agree on everything.

You seem a little over-sensitive there, FT. I made no such implication and indeed the reason I posted was because I know you would have no desire to ally yourself with a lying racist like feenxp.

And do you see no hypocrisy in his desire that a policy of "British jobs for British workers" be implemented, when his own Irish family were working immigrants in Britain?

[FutureTaoiseach]

You seem a little over-sensitive there, FT. I made no such implication and indeed the reason I posted was because I know you would have no desire to ally yourself with a lying racist like feenxp.

And do you see no hypocrisy in his desire that a policy of "British jobs for British workers" be implemented, when his own Irish family were working immigrants in Britain?

I believe in freedom of speech, even if I don't fully agree with that sort of sentiment referred to in your quote. But I absolutely reject the idea that because we disagree with someone that we have to treat them as untoucables and can't agree on anything at all. Should Dev and Collins have refused to support independence because JP Moran promoted what he called 'Irish Ireland' and its claim that the Northern Protestants weren't Irish? It's that sort of nonsense, that insists on guilt-by-association, that people are sick of in this country. We saw it in the Lisbon referendum campaign too with respect to yes campaign attacks on Libertas because of medals from the Louisiana national guard - and trying to extrapolate non-exist neocon tendencies from that. I reserve the right to agree with people on some issues, while fundamentally disagreeing with them on others. And outside of politics, a lot of us will know people whom we fundamentally disagree with on some issues, but remain friends with anyway. We may even know people with views we find abhorrent. But in the real world gnash1970, people often remain on friendly terms with such people. Most of us are not obsessed with PCness in the way the champagne-socialists are - you know - the kind who lecture the working-class to accept displacement and exploitation while claiming to be 'socialists'. I hold to a Voltairean creed on freedom of speech, and for that I will not apologise.