IMF could take over and "order" mass dismissal of public servants

[Bonzo1970]

IMF will do it quickly, with very good chance to recover after it. Many people even will be not able to feel the pain
With unions on the top, it will take longer, but result will be similar(Irish economy in grave), with only one difference – Ireland never will be able to recover back and our grandchildren will pay for salaries of fat cats from trade unions, which they are getting now

YES!! I cant wait!

[bormotello]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Please stop attacking people and make reasoned suggestions for cuts and how they will come about that give certainty to people. We face a major brain drain otherwise as soon as other countries pick up.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Ok
Try to object to this
1) Make all managers personally responsible for all mess in their departments from now on
2) If some manager will receive certain number of complaints, verified by independent body, he will be transferred from permanent position to probation period for 6 months
3) He will have right to do with his own staff everything what law allows
4) If he will failed, he will be fired without pension and his position will be advertised, but preference will given for people in public service, unless somebody with extraordinary troubleshooting skills will apply
5) All process must be transparent for public, i.e. names (may be not), positions, responsibilities

This applies for all level of public management, excluding ministers, which are elected by people

Advantages
1) A lot of managers are simply waiting for pension and not doing anything. Unfortunately for them taxpayers are not able to pay them big salaries.
2) It will bring some fresh blood to top position, because there are a lot of people in public services, which can outperform their managers
3) It will give a good lesson for future generations of managers that they have to work harder for taxpayers money

[wexfordman]

YES!! I cant wait!

Welcome back!!!

[X-ray]

Ok
Try to object to this
1) Make all managers personally responsible for all mess in their departments from now on
2) If some manager will receive certain number of complaints, verified by independent body, he will be transferred from permanent position to probation period for 6 months
3) He will have right to do with his own staff everything what law allows
4) If he will failed, he will be fired without pension and his position will be advertised, but preference will given for people in public service, unless somebody with extraordinary troubleshooting skills will apply
5) All process must be transparent for public, i.e. names (may be not), positions, responsibilities

This applies for all level of public management, excluding ministers, which are elected by people

Advantages
1) A lot of managers are simply waiting for pension and not doing anything. Unfortunately for them taxpayers are not able to pay them big salaries.
2) It will bring some fresh blood to top position, because there are a lot of people in public services, which can outperform their managers
3) It will give a good lesson for future generations of managers that they have to work harder for taxpayers money

Power in the public or civil service does not exist at the lower or middle levels of the organisations. Most managers cannot hire, fire or reallocate staff of resources. If they are to be responsible they must have the power.
I would gladly take on more responsibilty and power. Things are heading the opposite direction. Power is centralised and nothing is allowed without reports, consultants, protocols etc etc.
I dont see how your point has anything to do with what I said earlier to be honest. Is the PS badly run? yes. That is up to government to reorganise, the HSE is an example of that. No point blaming the pawns for where they are placed on the board.

[selfemployedmar]

Isn't that what Public Servants are expected to do now - work for free!

I am on the floor laughing with that reply!!

[bormotello]

Power in the public or civil service does not exist at the lower or middle levels of the organisations. Most managers cannot hire, fire or reallocate staff of resources. If they are to be responsible they must have the power.

100% agree

I would gladly take on more responsibilty and power. Things are heading the opposite direction. Power is centralised and nothing is allowed without reports, consultants, protocols etc etc.

This is why all structure has to be changed
Too much paperwork without any result for public

I dont see how your point has anything to do with what I said earlier to be honest. Is the PS badly run? yes. That is up to government to reorganise, the HSE is an example of that.

Government is just collection of idiots, every kid in this country know is it
They are not professionals - they are politicians, which only suppose to lie and promise things, which they never will do
They don’t know anything about management and departments, which they are controlling.
They must give only directions where to go, but not how to do it
This is job of public services come with proposal of better organization structure.
Why David Begg didn’t propose anything about efficiency of public services in his 10 points?
Trade union leaders have to much vested interests with top management and PS managers are also union members.
Majority of them is not interested in any changes. All what they want is to survive for pension. And they want to use dumb low paid workers as shield, because they have to unite all PS workers against public, in order to get money for wages and safe their positions.
There is no way to break this loop other then invite IMF

[X-ray]

100% agree


This is why all structure has to be changed
Too much paperwork without any result for public


Government is just collection of idiots, every kid in this country know is it
They are not professionals - they are politicians, which only suppose to lie and promise things, which they never will do
They don’t know anything about management and departments, which they are controlling.
They must give only directions where to go, but not how to do it
This is job of public services come with proposal of better organization structure.
Why David Begg didn’t propose anything about efficiency of public services in his 10 points?
Trade union leaders have to much vested interests with top management and PS managers are also union members.
Majority of them is not interested in any changes. All what they want is to survive for pension. And they want to use dumb low paid workers as shield, because they have to unite all PS workers against public, in order to get money for wages and safe their positions.
There is no way to break this loop other then invite IMF

Its all fine until you get to the IMF bit. I am outta here(Ireland) if that happens. I think the days when we think foreigners know better how to run Ireland than we know has passed.
If people are waiting for PS unios to come up with a plan to reorganise the was gov and public services are delivered they will be waiting forever. The unions neither have the ability, will or power to do that. You might as well wait for Aldi shelf packers to build a bigger carpark for the supermarket.
The allocation of resources in a management function not a union one. We have in general very poor management in this country in both the PS and private sector. Our political class is terrible because the system is broken, it is many full of parish pump inheritated seats and people fond of playing fast and loose with planning rules etc.

If your local hospital has too few beds no point blaming the nursing crying for more beds or even their manager locally. Try the TD that decided to allow Harney run the system the way it is run.
Sure people have a right to expect cost effective and professional PS, but if they are not allowed freedom to make decisions dont blame them.
Unions are only there to tell management what the workers think in a structured and democratic way. Thats all.
I am not aware that the IMF has any great resources from a management point of view. I certainly wont be investing any money in countries that are now IMF run.

[turdsl]

The majority of the Irish people were right vote, no, to Lisbon.

[X-ray]

There is no way to break this loop other then invite IMF

Just get rid of whoever is not needed from the PS. Is that beyond the gov? Pay them what they are entitled to, discuss it with unions, loads will gladly walk anyway. It have never been asked for. How about 4 day weeks, 3 day weeks?
There are about 5 banks worth of employees effectively in the PS we could do without also. Merge all the banks into one state banks, sack everyone else and sell the properties and assets. When it returns a profit sell it back in shares again. The banking system is the most bloated of the state services at this stage.

[bormotello]

Just get rid of whoever is not needed from the PS. Is that beyond the gov? Pay them what they are entitled to, discuss it with unions, loads will gladly walk anyway.

This reply from unions

Should there be large scale redundancies in the public sector?

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DarkOrange"]No.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
It’s dishonest and reckless to suggest that massive cuts in public service staffing are possible without harming badly-needed services. What’s more, calls for deep cuts are doubly damaging because they are preventing a genuine debate about real reforms that would improve service quality and value for money.

Unions never will allow it, because their job is to protect their members, not public interests

They will speak forever about everything, will call for strikes, will negotiate everything, but day when ICTU will agree with massive redundancies in public sector will be last day for TU bosses
Unions must provide security of jobs and pay level for their members.
Everything else is secondary.
This is why PS unions are natural enemies of public.
This why most of people who is calling to see IMF here, is actually want to get rid of PS unions.

I simply don’t see any alternative to smash PS unions, rather then IMF