Handgun Ban - Another Example of the Nanny State

[The Underdog]

Yes, I have a very good knowledge of such. On a familial level as well as friends and acquaintance level. I'll let you think about that for yourself.

And I did post a thread on that topic which got little resposne. Link: http://www.politics.ie/health-social...r-vaccine.html Seven respondants, including one troll.

I guess there's more important things to waffle about like soccer. Or banning handguns.

Now, run along and play with your toys, bluffer. You're not worth responding to.

You were challenged to back up your assertions and arguments, you failed to do so, and now your only defence is that cancer is more important than discussing hand gun policy, so I should leave. The bluff is all yours and you were called.

Underdog it has all already been explained.

You cannot compare our States gun stats to the US gun stats as the US is divided into separate states each with different laws just like each European state has different laws.

Do you/can you understand that?

However because each state has different gun laws we can compare crime stats in the different states and see how this effects society.

Nobody here is calling for a Colorado style gun policy where you can buy any gun and pick it up three days later. What we are arguing is that the Irish way of vetting gun purchases is excellent and therefore shouldn't be changed. It takes three months just to get a 22 rifle here. It can take a lot longer to get a pistol.

The issue of owning a gun for protection is seperate altogether. As you can see by the Florida stats gun crime goes down when regular people carry guns on the street daily. I for one don't wish to see a day when everyone has to be armed to feel safe in this country but if crime gets to the point that it was at in Florida when they decided to allow carry-conceal permits then i wouldn't object.

Underdog you obviously don' know a huge amount about this issue. Why don' you go have a look at the stats for Seattle Washington and Vancouver, BA just over the border. And while your at it check out the demographics for those two neighboring cities and tell me what you find...

No what your posting is excuses for avoiding or ignoring the questions, not facts. I notice with interest you’re still avoiding comparison of international statistics at all costs, and you're only intrested in quoting and presenting selected US gun lobby state statistics, with no link to Irish or other international stats.

[skev]

You were challenged to back up your assertions and arguments, you failed to do so, and now your only defence is that cancer is more important than discussing hand gun policy, so I should leave. The bluff is all yours and you were called.



No what your posting is excuses for avoiding or ignoring the questions, not facts. I notice with interest you’re still avoiding comparison of international statistics at all costs, and you're only intrested in quoting and presenting selected US gun lobby state statistics, with no link to Irish or other international stats.

I already compared international stats. You didn't read my posts or my links.

You are very ignorant but I would put that down to youth. When you grow up you'll actually read the links and posts of others before replying.

Lets forget about the US. One cannot compare any country to the US as its not comparing like with like. Show me some stats from europe that back your claims up....

[The Underdog]

I already compared international stats. You didn't read my posts or my links.

You are very ignorant but I would put that down to youth. When you grow up you'll actually read the links and posts of others before replying.

Lets forget about the US. One cannot compare any country to the US as its not comparing like with like. Show me some stats from europe that back your claims up....

Where did I mention my age ? Still avoiding the questions I see, and still resorting to ad hominem, irrelevant assumptions and diversions, anything but answer the questions. (Gun people on this thread seem to love it, which speaks volumes). If you think answering my questions with questions will get you off the hook, it wont.

If I haven’t refuted your international stats before as you claim, my sincere apologies for the oversight which you interestingly only mention now, please feel free to post them again, or why not give at least give the post number ?

[skev]

Where did I mention my age ? Still avoiding the questions I see, and still resorting to ad hominem, irrelevant assumptions and diversions, anything but answer the questions. (Gun people on this thread seem to love it, which speaks volumes). If you think answering my questions with questions will get you off the hook, it wont.

If I haven’t refuted your international stats before as you claim, my sincere apologies for the oversight which you interestingly only mention now, please feel free to post them again, or why not give at least give the post number ?

Here's a list of countries by household gun ownership rates. As you can see Norway is number 2 and Canada is number3. Neither of these countries rank highly on the aforementioned Wikipedia list of homicides by firearm. I don't think Americas murder rate is so high because of he amount of guns. I think its more o do with the lack of responsibility and lack of morals that exists in that country.

In fact if you look at the lists, none of these countries are in the top 10 of the homicide list. USA is at 11 but again I think its more of a moral issue in the states than an issue of gun ownership.

Gun ownership rates by country

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To which you replied

Morals ?

Why do you feel the need to own a semi auto hand gun ?

The morals to which I referred were the lesser values placed on life in the states. I think Americans are trigger happy which is why I'm arguing the point that if you forget about America and concentrate on similar countries to ourselves like Norway you will see that the availability of guns doesn't necessarily mean a higher rate of crime but in fact when you look at the figures lower rates of homicide are recorded in countries with good gun regulation like Ireland.

Avctually was just looking at the wikipedia pages on gun ownership rates and the list of countries by firearm related deaths. Quite interesting in that many of the countries with the highest rates of homicide by firearm are not even on the list of countries by gun-ownership.

Ireland is particularly interesting as according to this list we are 25th in the world on the list of firearm related deaths with a rate of 1.21(I presume that's per 1000). However this breaks down as 0.03 homicides, 0.11 is unintentional deaths and 0.94 is suicides. Maybe we should put more effort in to suicide prevention than gun prevention? That is if we really care about people....

By the way we're 3rd from bottom on that list if you arrange it in order of homicides.... That makes me think that the handgun ban is completely unwarranted and a classic example of the nanny state in action. The only 2 states below us on the homicide list are Japan and Mauritius. Mauritius had no firearm homicides by the way.

Handguns are legal in this country. Illegal handguns are rampant in this country. Banning handguns will not get rid of criminals or their handguns. It will not negatively effect crime gangs and drug lords because they buy their guns abroad and import them illegally.

Please address these points and then give me one reason why I personally should not be allowed to have a handgun in this country taking into account that I've never broken the law, never been known to the police, have proven myself to be a good contributor in society and I have no physical, mental or emotional difficulties.

[myksav]

Quote:
Originally Posted by myksav
Yes, I have a very good knowledge of such. On a familial level as well as friends and acquaintance level. I'll let you think about that for yourself.

And I did post a thread on that topic which got little resposne. Link: Cervical cancer vaccine. Seven respondants, including one troll.

I guess there's more important things to waffle about like soccer. Or banning handguns.

Now, run along and play with your toys, bluffer. You're not worth responding to.

You were challenged to back up your assertions and arguments, you failed to do so, and now your only defence is that cancer is more important than discussing hand gun policy, so I should leave. The bluff is all yours and you were called.

You commented on my post of disgust: "All this "concern" about handguns, not an ounce of interest in cervical cancer. Says much about the likes of the underdog et al." Post 588. I answered. You avoided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myksav
Underdog it has all already been explained.

You cannot compare our States gun stats to the US gun stats as the US is divided into separate states each with different laws just like each European state has different laws.

Do you/can you understand that?

However because each state has different gun laws we can compare crime stats in the different states and see how this effects society.

Nobody here is calling for a Colorado style gun policy where you can buy any gun and pick it up three days later. What we are arguing is that the Irish way of vetting gun purchases is excellent and therefore shouldn't be changed. It takes three months just to get a 22 rifle here. It can take a lot longer to get a pistol.

The issue of owning a gun for protection is seperate altogether. As you can see by the Florida stats gun crime goes down when regular people carry guns on the street daily. I for one don't wish to see a day when everyone has to be armed to feel safe in this country but if crime gets to the point that it was at in Florida when they decided to allow carry-conceal permits then i wouldn't object.

Underdog you obviously don' know a huge amount about this issue. Why don' you go have a look at the stats for Seattle Washington and Vancouver, BA just over the border. And while your at it check out the demographics for those two neighboring cities and tell me what you find...

No what your posting is excuses for avoiding or ignoring the questions, not facts. I notice with interest you’re still avoiding comparison of international statistics at all costs, and you're only intrested in quoting and presenting selected US gun lobby state statistics, with no link to Irish or other international stats.

You would find that if you truly read the posts in this thread that that post was written by Skev, not me. You don't even know who you are replying to.
You are so focused on your despite of handguns that you cannot see clearly. Odd for someone who claimed to have trained others in weapons use. With that little situational awareness, you would be a dangerous trainer.

Your opinion holds little value save for yourself and others who fear and loath weapons from lack of knowledge.
I shall leave you to play in your mud pool on this thread.

[Mark.Keogh]

The gun that was used to murder Donal Dunne was his own legally held shotgun.

I understood that the sale of firearms was changed due to this. Perhaps it needs to be tightened more - only sold in a controlled situation (gun club, region garda HQ) and with background and psychological profile check before one can be listed as an approved buyer.

Even so that is one instance since the founding of the state and zero in the confines of my original question "deaths by registered handguns since 2000". Ireland appears to be cue-tip clean in this area.

[Statism is Terrorism]

The kind of people who would want to have hand guns are usually the very same people who shouldn't be given them

Exactly! Who is responsible for more murders worldwide State armies and police or civilians?

The very last organisation you want in control of the guns is the state.

[Luigi Vampa]

Exactly! Who is responsible for more murders worldwide State armies and police or civilians?

The very last organisation you want in control of the guns is the state.

Thankfully our Police have no time for our so called government.

RTÉ News: Call for removal of GRA president from force

[The Underdog]

The morals to which I referred were the lesser values placed on life in the states. I think Americans are trigger happy which is why I'm arguing the point that if you forget about America and concentrate on similar countries to ourselves like Norway you will see that the availability of guns doesn't necessarily mean a higher rate of crime but in fact when you look at the figures lower rates of homicide are recorded in countries with good gun regulation like Ireland.

Handguns are legal in this country. Illegal handguns are rampant in this country. Banning handguns will not get rid of criminals or their handguns. It will not negatively effect crime gangs and drug lords because they buy their guns abroad and import them illegally.

Please address these points and then give me one reason why I personally should not be allowed to have a handgun in this country taking into account that I've never broken the law, never been known to the police, have proven myself to be a good contributor in society and I have no physical, mental or emotional difficulties.

You want to compare Ireland to Canada and Norway, ok lets look at firearm death rates Vs gun ownership.

List of countries by gun ownership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Guns / 100 residents
Ireland 5.6
Canada 31.5
Norway 36

Total firearm related death rate-Homicides-Suicides-Unintentional
(per 100,000 residents)

Ireland - 1.21-0.03-0.94-0.11
Canada -4.78-0.76-3.72-0.22
Norway -4.39-0.30-3.95-0.12

You're concerned about illegal handguns, so is everyone, and they need to be dealt with separately, increasing the number of legal handguns wont solve the illegal problem, and if lives are also saved by keeping the numbers of legal firearms low its worth it. What price do you put on even one human life ? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

You’re concerned that you personally are being prevented from having a handgun even though you have “never broken the law, never been known to the police, have proven yourself to be a good contributor in society and have no physical, mental or emotional difficulties.” That's grand you’re a normal average citizen, but based on that most people should have handguns, including the Birds, Ryan's, Hamiltons, etc. and eventually a gun ownership rate approaching the problem countries rates. We can't own everything we want to.

The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 20, 2008 - Gun ownership will be as high as in US without 'radical' reform - Minister

You would find that if you truly read the posts in this thread that that post was written by Skev, not me. You don't even know who you are replying to.
You are so focused on your despite of handguns that you cannot see clearly. Odd for someone who claimed to have trained others in weapons use. With that little situational awareness, you would be a dangerous trainer.

Your opinion holds little value save for yourself and others who fear and loath weapons from lack of knowledge.
I shall leave you to play in your mud pool on this thread.

You're now resorting to arguments about typo's and their equivalence to firearms ? Take the plank out of you're own eye first. Insults only demean the insulter, and all you've posted since you were challenged is ad hominem. Says all I need to.