Teachers salaries

[Clanrickard]

Oh yes it's nothing to do with capitalism in crisis, sub-prime lending, 100% mortgages, construction falling on it's @rse etc It's all about teachers being overpaid! Quick let's bring in some cheap foreign labour and sack them all!

No it isn't. But if pain is to be felt then those on the biggest salries should feel it most. Like I have said. Once you are a permanent teacher you are on the pig's back. For Life. Bar you smoke a spliff in class and batter some kid senseless and attack the inspector (if you ever see one) with an axe in front of the whole school then you will not be sacked. The worst that'll happen is early retirement. Every kid in the country could tell you about teachers that do nothing and still get to keep their jobs. Keep the good ones and sack the bad ones. Won't happen thanks to public service unions.

[Clanrickard]

Are you saying that teachers pensions are not giving a contribution by the Govt.? because if you are your facts need review. Teachers have for the most part "defined benefit" pension with 2/3 final salary schemes.

My point exactly. Now DHarry who was giving who the benefit of intelligence? Is the D Debbie, Dirty or Dozzy?

[Middleaged]

Many employers make contributions to their employees pensions.

Thats my point, the pensions are'nt being funded solely by employee contributions (every 2 week) as was the inference. So the Govt. is funding a portion of the pension, with no risk accruing to the teacher.

There are'nt may employers going that nowadays

[adrem]

Teachers do not FUND their pensions - they contribute to them - there is a massive massive difference. (I thought all civil servants contributed to their pension plan - you're saying they don't and it's just teachers? are you sure?)

A couple of percent per annum is paid from the teachers salary into the superann scheme and some into the spouses and childrens scheme. It doesn't come anywhere close to covering the cost or the risk of a private sector pension (all risk is taken by the state in terms of investment, cost, mortality).

There is (btw) no question but that SOME private sector employees - particularly those in some of the large financial institutions and multinationals have pensions similar to the teachers - they are funded DB schemes as distinct from the PAYG teachers scheme. Those same private sector employees though don't have the job security of a civil service job and (as we all know) they lose their jobs from time to time. There will be (imho) a couple of hundred job losses in the financial sector over the coming year. There are a couple of hundred jobs being relocated to Asia over the coming years. A number of the large US FDI companies will close their Irish operations and those employees will lose jobs AND pensions. Also in the main - new employees joining these companies don't get the DB pension - they get a contribution put into a DC pension instead.

On the degree issue - you could be right I had thought that there were still teachers at primary level without degrees - could be wrong and happy to accept that.

[cenfath]

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrem
A significant minority (possibly a majority but i'm not sure) of our teachers do NOT have a university degree - they have the H Dip and that's it.
!!

I don't know what country you're in Adrem, but here in Ireland you have to have a B.Ed or another primary degree plus postgrad in education to be a primary teacher. Are you a bit misinformed about secondary teachers - they have a degree PLUS a H. Dip? You might want to check out your facts before you start posting rubbish like that. If you are talking about unqualified teachers in our system, I completely agree with you, it's a disgrace that the government allows them to work in our educational system, and an even bigger disgrace that the Teaching Council (which we as teachers don't seem to have any input into, we just have to pay their fee, or it'll be automatically taken out of our pay, no choice about it!) has included a lot of them on its books, as teachers.

Most Polish speak English, maybe we should import some teachers from Poland. The amount they cost looks attractive at twice the price if the above article is accurate.
Time to benchmark the teachers and other public sector peacocks downwards.

What a great idea! If you want your children to come out of school fluent in Polish, and not much else. What kind of thinking leads you to even joke about giving children in Ireland a sub-standard education? Teachers are paid as professionals. I've been teaching 8 years and I'm not making enough money to even look for a mortgage. I don't know what kind of stories people are hearing about teachers' salaries, but if you think it's that easy to teach why don't you stop giving out, and go and do the postgrad to become a teacher!

[feargach]

EVERYBODY in Ireland, public private or whatever, is massively overpaid in relation to their average EU counterparts, most especially when compared to the former communist parts of the EU.

We are a bubble-distorted economy, like Iceland three months ago. It´s not just teachers, it´s everybody, nobody excluded, whose income is distorted by our imagination-based fantasy economy. Singling out teachers while giving a free pass to lawyers and dentists is vile, disgusting bigotry at its very worst.

The obscene profits gained by lawyers and dentists is similarly out of whack with the EU. But you´ll wait unto death to see a thread on P.ie or a series of angry rant-columns in the Indo about it. Teachers and other public servants are the whipping boys for the entire educated sector.

That comparison makes as much sense as taking an economic average of California which includes the part of California which is in the USA, and Baja California, whic his Mexico´s. The industrial might of LA will be distorted by the poverty and chaos of 3rd world Baja California. And accurately measuring Baja California will be impossible too!

It´s utterly ludicrous to lump them together. All you get is a silly chalk and cheese mixture of data. A chalk and cheese mixture is worse than useless: you can´t write on a blackboard with it OR eat it.

The nastiest irony of this sick bigotry which views the super-rich legal/dental/etc cartels as angelic, but castigates the public servants is that the public servants are the ones who didn´t ever intend to rip anyone off when they chise their career path.

People who stufy law or dentistry always have the immediate aim of getting rich, and preventing any external competiton. They go in with the clear intent to shovel in the readies, and to exert force to ensure that the populace have no other option.

The public service doesn´t try to prevent others from getting hired. They want the job to get done, and when that means more hands ondeck, they´re in favour of more hiring.

Dentists and lawyers cynically make sure that nobody breaks in on their cosy racket.

Do we care? No, because they are not public servants (although their market-distorting, no-new-entrants closed shops have full legal status, and they enjoy all the protection with none of the obligation) and thus enjoy full immunity from criticism, let alone attack.

[Clanrickard]

Dentists and lawyers cynically make sure that nobody breaks in on their cosy racket.
Do we care? No, because they are not public servants (although their market-distorting, no-new-entrants closed shops have full legal status, and they enjoy all the protection with none of the obligation) and thus enjoy full immunity from criticism, let alone attack.

$ solicitors were let go last week from my sister-in-laws firm. Many others are losing their jobs in the legal profession. Tell me , how many permanent teachers are being let go?

[Middleaged]

Such an arrangement is part of any quality employment. By your logic any employee in such a situation is somehow having it easy. The issue of teachers' pensions is a total red herring brought up at every teacher-bashing party. This one is no different.

Well maybe they should stop whinging then and do an 8 hr day and live on 21days holidays pa.

[Oppenheimer]

Well maybe they should stop whinging then and do an 8 hr day and live on 21days holidays pa.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - I was correct earlier when I referenced the ability for some posters to think!

[BodyofEvidence]

Well maybe they should stop whinging then and do an 8 hr day and live on 21days holidays pa.

Maybe you should take a class of 37 7 year olds for a few days and see how easy it is. Im sure your mightly intellect would have no difficulty dealing with it.