It seems that the Monagham death occured because doctors were prevented from acting by a "protocol" which is jargon for saying thay were not insured. I thought they were obliged by oath to save life. Are insurance considerations now more important that oaths to save life?
This is highly disengenuous of you.
The doctors strove to save the man's life while desperately trying to find him an ICU bed elsewhere in the region.
They were prevented from operating on him because the nurses were not insured to be on the premises of the hospital after 5pm. Would you rather they had operated on him without any nurses present?
The staff at Monaghan Hospital are greatly traumatised by this death and your mangling of the facts to make it seem their fault is despicable.
This death, like those of Bronagh Livingstone, Seosamh O'Neill and others, is the fault of the HSE North-East management and their dogged insistence on an unsafe strategy, and no one else's.
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The oath is taken in the same vane as the confirmation pledge. Some refuse to take it because they believe it compromises their integrity by swearing alleigance to gods they have never heard of. Professional ethics are determined by their membership of the medical council, not an irrelevant oath.Originally Posted by commentator
So the Hippocratic Oath isn't really relevant any more? I found the idea of such an uncompromising commitment to the preservation of life comforting, rather than life being safeguarded (or not) by a less thunderous, bureaucratic 'committee on ethics'.
You say JCSkinner that: "They were prevented from operating on him because the nurses were not insured to be on the premises of the hospital after 5pm" - that kinda proves commentators point, no? If there were nurses there and they had been prepared to say 'feck the insurers, get this man to the operating room', would this have made a difference?
Actuaries have a great deal of power in this country in terms of dictating the behaviour of people (CCTV everywhere). Are they now able to dictate a situation like this? If the nurses weren't there could someone have not phoned them and gone round to pick them up in 15 - 20 mins while surgery was prepared?
I have no idea about the facts of the case, just wondering.
If the nurses had gone into the hospital after 5pm for any reason other than to pick up some personal belonging they had left behind, thanks to the slashing of emergency cover in 2002 at Monaghan, NO ONE would have been insured.
Had Mr Walsh then died after being operated on, the family could have rightly sued for millions, all the doctors involved would have probably lost fitness to practice hearings and been struck off, and the nurses also would have probably been made unemployable.
This ain't the fault of the hospital staff, the nurses, the consultants, or the actuaries and insurers.
This is the fault of the HSE management who chose three years ago to cut emergency services at Monaghan because they believed the service could be provided from Cavan instead. We now know it can't, but still they will not re-open Monaghan/
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There is a classic version http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors...classical.html
and a modern version http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html
Sorry lads, but in case you werent listening over the last few years, you will realise that health is now almost completely a business and if your not economically viable (or completely brain dead with a lot of lunatic religous fruit speaking for you) then I am afraid your poor ass is going down.
Am I cynical? Considering I lost a relative some years back over what turned out to be 'lack of resources' I dont think so.
If I could mass-sterilise the planet, I would. Seriously.
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€5 says DC deletes this thread when it appears on the Recent Discussions list!
:twisted:
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain
“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
Okay, I'll take that bet.
Of course, he might delete your post - it is off-topic!
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Repeat after me:
Harney is a competent and caring minister!
Harney is not to blame!
PD health policy is good for you!
Four legs good, two legs bad!
There, that should keep the Mods happy!
"Partout où la liberté règne elle est incessamment attaquée et très souvent en péril” – Jean Jacques Rousseau.
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