what is the irish army for?

[DALCASSIAN]

I believe it was Corelli Barnet, author of Britain and Her Army, who remarked that that force had been established in the 17th Century to crush the Catholic Irish.

Nearly four centuries later General Frank Kitson, the counter-insurgency expert, said its task was to squeeze the Catholics until they vomited forth the IRA.

There is a nice consistency between the original task and the longest campaign recently completed, and commemorated in London's St Paul's Cathedral.

On the face of it there appears to be no such consistency in the Irish Defence Forces which trace their origin to the Irish Citizen Army and the Irish Volunteers, still less than one century ago.

The Citizen Army famously paraded before a banner proclaiming "We Serve Neither King nor Kaiser - But Ireland!" in March 1916, the same month in which James Connolly's three-act play "Under Which Flag" was staged in Liberty Hall.

A month later it merged with the Irish Volunteers into what Connolly called "the Army of the Irish Republic". So began a war FOR independence. The Irish Volunteers had been founded in 1913 to defend Ireland's rights.

Independence was not and has not been achieved, which is why, unlike the USA or India, for instance, Ireland does not celebrate an Independence Day. In recent decades the Defence Forces make up for this lack of opportunity for National rejoicing by parading with the Royal British Legion on Armistice Day, a privilege once accorded to the Dublin branch of the British Union of Fascists.

The reason that independence was not won is that the British Army , its armed and its political auxiliaries successfully stood in its way.

Of course some progress was made towards independence, and when advocating the Stepping Stone approach Michael Collins had this to say-

"Our army, if it exists for honourable purposes only, will draw to it honourable men. It will call to it the best men of our race - men of skill and culture. It will not be recruited as many modern armies are, from those who are industrially useless.

Our army exist only for the defence of our liberties. An Irish army can never be used for the ignoble purpose of invasion, subjugation and exploitation.

I believe that the general culture of the Defence Forces reflected this vision. In the 1950s recruiting campaigns invoked patriot soldiers from the time of Eoghan Ruadh O'Neill to the Boys who bate the Black and Tans.

Until the 1970s the Military College at the Curragh invited applications for Cadetship under the slogan "an rod sa Romham"
suggesting martyrdom in the manner of Pearse.

Imagine my surprise and disgust as an ex-Summer soldier and sunshine patriot of the FCA to read in the continuing dispute over Irishmen in British uniforms, two ex-Captains of the Irish army maintaining that the nation, the State and the citizens should rank Irishmen who, in British uniform forced Opium on China, in French uniform put down the Paris Commune, in American uniform waged genocidal war against native Americans on the same plane as Wolfe Tone, Emmet, Pearse, Liam Lynch and Michael Collins, and above that of such altruistic patriots as Bobby Sands.

Such ex-Captains as Donal Buckley of Mayo would dismiss me and those who think like me as "immature". They regard themselves as mature, just as those who sell pornography label their wares as "adult" literature and "adult" movies.

Long ago Cicero declared that those who are ignorant of history are stuck in adolescence. Captain Buckley and those who have taken his side in the argument, remind me of the teenage love song of Sam Cook - "don't know much about history, don't know much about etc. etc.

I may of course have erred on the side of charity. Perhaps they DO know history and have consciously chosen to glorify the ignoble roles of invasion, subjugation and exploitation.

[Twin Towers]

Are you Angelcountry's brother?

[A_man_about_a_dog]

Are you Angelcountry's brother?

TT, have you not met Angelcity yet? He just doesn't seem to get any better, no matter how long he's been gone.

Despite the fact that he is indeed a troll, the OP's grammar, spelling and general understanding of the English language is of far too high a standard for him to be that angel******************************.

[ReformedRepublican]

I believe it was Corelli Barnet, author of Britain and Her Army, who noted that that force haed been established in the 17th Century to crush the Catholic Irish.

Nearly four centuries later General Mike Kitson, the counter-insurgency expert said its task was to squeeze the Catholics until they vomited forth the IRA.

There is a nice consistency between the original task and the longest campaign recently commemorated in London's St Paul's Cathedral.

On the face of it there appears to be no such consistency in the Irish Defence Forces which trace their origin to the Irish Citizen Army and the Irish Volunteers, still less than one century ago.

The Citizen Army famously paraded before a banner proclaiming "We Serve Neither King nor Kaiser - But Ireland!" in

The origins of Britains household divsion(britains senior regiments) lie in the english civil war and with charles II to fight for the royalist cause, nothing to do with crushing catholics


But if lies make you feel like more of a patriot keep going.

[DALCASSIAN]

"Reformed Republican" accuses me of lying.

I believe I psaraphrased fairly what Corelli Barnett wrote sometime in the 197os when he would hav been quite aware of the congruity of the British Army's then role with its original one.

In the centuries in between I do believe the Bitish army has been used for repression in Ireland. "Reformed Republican" does not seem an Informed one.

[Cael]

When advocating the Stepping Stone approach Michael Collins had this to say-

"Our army, if it exists for honourable purposes only, will draw to it honourable men. It will call to it the best men of our race - men of skill and culture. It will not be recruited as many modern armies are, from those who are industrially useless."



Unfortunately Collins & Co. ended up recruiting the dregs of the British army into the free state army. Later on, O'Higgins saw to it that most of the pro treaty IRA were driven out of the free state army altogether (ast they were considered politically suspect) and the British army mercenaries made the backbone of this new army. So much for the best men of our race

[Harpo]

The army in Ireland as with all countries in the west is the armed wing of the capitalist and ruling classes. The army in Ireland is the greatest potential threat to the Irish people. When the people of Ireland do eventually attempt to overthrow capitalism and replace it with a just and equitable true democracy, the Irish army will fight tooth and nail to preserve inequality and preserve the prililege of the rich.

[Macca]

When advocating the Stepping Stone approach Michael Collins had this to say-

"Our army, if it exists for honourable purposes only, will draw to it honourable men. It will call to it the best men of our race - men of skill and culture. It will not be recruited as many modern armies are, from those who are industrially useless."



Unfortunately Collins & Co. ended up recruiting the dregs of the British army into the free state army. Later on, O'Higgins saw to it that most of the pro treaty IRA were driven out of the free state army altogether (ast they were considered politically suspect) and the British army mercenaries made the backbone of this new army. So much for the best men of our race

Men like Emmet Dalton could hardly be called the dregs of the British Army. He held the rank of Major by the end of the Great War before he joined the IRA and later became GOC of the new Free State Army, I think he masterminded the attack which recaptured Cork city from the sea.

[droghedasouth]

The army in Ireland as with all countries in the west is the armed wing of the capitalist and ruling classes. The army in Ireland is the greatest potential threat to the Irish people. When the people of Ireland do eventually attempt to overthrow capitalism and replace it with a just and equitable true democracy, the Irish army will fight tooth and nail to preserve inequality and preserve the prililege of the rich.

When the people of Ireland do eventually rise up to overthrow capitalism, you wont have to worry about trhe army.
I am sure all the good proletarian comrades will form soviets, shoot their officers, and an era of free love will dawn that will sweep the world.

PS - you might even take encouragement from the Portugese Carnation revolution in April 1974.

[Harpo]

The army in Ireland as with all countries in the west is the armed wing of the capitalist and ruling classes. The army in Ireland is the greatest potential threat to the Irish people. When the people of Ireland do eventually attempt to overthrow capitalism and replace it with a just and equitable true democracy, the Irish army will fight tooth and nail to preserve inequality and preserve the prililege of the rich.

When the people of Ireland do eventually rise up to overthrow capitalism, you wont have to worry about trhe army.
I am sure all the good proletarian comrades will form soviets, shoot their officers, and an era of free love will dawn that will sweep the world.

PS - you might even take encouragement from the Portugese Carnation revolution in April 1974.

The Portugeese situation was entirely different. Their officer caste post WW2 was often drawn from the working class as opposed to the middle and upper classes the officers of most western countries come from. The Portugeese experience in Angola politicised and radicalised the portugeese army as they came in contact with Cuban and Angolan marxists. They came to see that Portugeese state did not represent their class interests but it only propped up a small elite. It's hard to see a similar situation among the Irish officer class arise.