High birth rates: what's the secret of irish success?

[Daniel]

Hi folks,

I’ve just read the results of the last census in 2006 and I was very surprised. Due to low birth and fertility rates in Germany we have a huge problem of demographic decrease in the next decades. I expected a similar situation in Ireland because in the past two decades you entered in a modern economy. Normally there is a tight connection of a developed economy and lower birth rates.

So I’m wondering and asking you what’s the secret of irish success in higher and increasing birth rates? Is it you welfare system? Is it the influence of the Catholic Church? What can we learn in Germany from you?

Regards
Daniel
Germany

[HanleyS]

Expensive condoms.

[twtone]

A lot of unemployed migrants with too much time on their hands.

[FrankSpeaks]

Ridin!

[Electro]

Immigrants. If it weren't for the "New Irish" our birth rate would be dropping rapidly.

[Robbie C]

Our birthrate has dropped dramatically - a generation ago families of 5-plus children was the norm and 10-plus was nothing out of the ordinary. Our birthrate has probably fallen more than most countries in the EU but given that we started at such a high level means that we're yet to fall to a point below where other EU nations are now. We are still heading in that direction however, and I'd imagine it won't be too long before we're in the type of situation Germany is in now. And of course, immigrants are having a big impact too. A phenomenon of citizenship tourism was identified a few years back whereby people from outside the EU were arriving at Irish maternity hospitals they'd never visited before and having children in the knowledge their child would have Irish and by extension EU citizenship. A referendum was held and passed to tackle this issue. If you check out the stats given on Irish maternity ward hospitals such as the Mater, the Coombe and Holles Street hospitals you'll see the extent to which non-Irish mothers have skewed what would internationally be looked at as the Irish birthrate. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing - immigration has been identified as a means through which western countries can stave off the problems of an aging population.

[Robbie C]

A recent survey (can't find it now) found that the Germans were generally pessimistic about the future and consequently were reluctant to invest in children. The Irish tend to be more optimistic (deluded?).
Both attitudes are related to our respective histories, war in one case and adversity in the other.

Shhhh! Don't mention the war!

[Thranduil]

What do Germans take their cue from?

Insert sexy pregnant females into soap operas, give good jobs to models who are pregnant, create a positive attitude around the whole experience of having a child, from school onwards - offer financial incentives too. I think in the end it is predominately the female decision on whether or not Germany's birth rates go up or down that will sway it.

[Duth Ealla]

Also look at the difference in wages for Men and Women in Ireland it was only 7% one of the lowest in Europe. Look at the Scandanavian countries which have high birth rates and systens that dont penalise birth.

Then contrast it with countries like Italy that have ridculously macho societies where a guy wont marry a girl if she earns more that him.

Birth rate is controlled by incentive. If you allow women to have a career and a life at the same time as children you will have higher birth rates. Look at Iceland!
If you disincentivise birth then you'll get a lower rate.
Catholic church has nothing to do with it. Societal model of families often living close to grandparents or other relatives probably helps a bit as it eases the burden.
Unfortunately for Germany one of the issues is that women have become accustomed to not giving birth. That can change quickly but until societies are geared more towards incentivising birth across a very broad spectrum, not just 5k per child; but measures that have a positive impact on women's lives and career prospects you are not going to achieve much.





http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7288901.stm

[Duth Ealla]

Our birthrate has dropped dramatically - a generation ago families of 5-plus children was the norm and 10-plus was nothing out of the ordinary. Our birthrate has probably fallen more than most countries in the EU but given that we started at such a high level means that we're yet to fall to a point below where other EU nations are now. We are still heading in that direction however, and I'd imagine it won't be too long before we're in the type of situation Germany is in now. And of course, immigrants are having a big impact too. A phenomenon of citizenship tourism was identified a few years back whereby people from outside the EU were arriving at Irish maternity hospitals they'd never visited before and having children in the knowledge their child would have Irish and by extension EU citizenship. A referendum was held and passed to tackle this issue. If you check out the stats given on Irish maternity ward hospitals such as the Mater, the Coombe and Holles Street hospitals you'll see the extent to which non-Irish mothers have skewed what would internationally be looked at as the Irish birthrate. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing - immigration has been identified as a means through which western countries can stave off the problems of an aging population.

Yeah but they will grow old as well so it is just about staving off not solving.
However if you accept the idea that Western Societes disadvantage women who give birth, and the evidence is there that it does, then having immigrants bear kids is saying screw you lot you can put up with the resulting disadvantages we dont give a ************************e about you. Its a funny situation though when you are importing people so as to avoid correcting a social model that affects half the population.