The PSA: The ultimate Quango madness?

[michael1965]

I just heard a good one on Joe Duffy today. I heard about this first about 12 months ago, and thought no way, they couldn't bring this in. This will surely be thrown in the bin before the Dail has to waste valuable time on it. But apparently no, the government has created a monumental system of red-tape around the installation of burglar alarms.

It is now illegal for a householder to have an alarm installed (for payment) by anyone who isn't registered with a new quango called the PSA (Private Security Authority). If you buy an alarm from Argos like this one and install it in your granny's house, and if your granny pays you a few bob, then your granny is breaking the law, and can go to jail for a year.

What kind of dumbo the clown wrote this law? How did it get through the Dail? Did any TDs actually read it?

Apparently, alarm installers have to be registered, for which they pay a hefty fee ( at least €2000) which is also payable on renewal. So, what will the effect of this be? As pointed out on JD today, it will be to reduce competition in the alarm installation industry. Electricians who are more than competent to install alarms, won't be bothered registering unless it is a significant part of their business.

How did this come about? What problem was needing to be solved here? Were the government duped by vested interests in the industry who saw the coming regulation of security services like bouncers, door-men etc. and saw the opportunity to eliminate their competition in the alarm installation sector. Or else was it just a mistake? Alarms have "something to do with" security, so they were just lumped in with bouncers and that whole business. Does anyone have an idea?

What sector is next for this treatment? Will chimney sweeps have to register with the CSA (Chimney Sweeps Authority) with inspectors being sent round the country looking for chimneys that have been illegally swept? Who knows? Maybe, it will be motor mechanics, gardeners, brick layers ... You couldn't make this stuff up.

[jfk2008]

The main point of the PSA is not to regulate the private installation of alarms but to regulate bouncers/private security guards. How many thugs working as bouncers have you come across over the years? If the PSA can help weed out the psychos and gangsters from the industry then it'll be money well spent.

The PSA does regulate commercial alarm installers and rightly so. Do you want to have your alarm system installed by some cowboy who might come back and rob your house?

The PSA doesn't have any function in relation to DIY alarm installation whether someone's putting an alarm into their own home or in the home of a relative or friend even if they get paid a few quid.

This is typical of the Daily Mail style of hysterical 'reporting' that makes Joe Duffy such a bloody gobsh*te!

[michael1965]

The main point of the PSA is not to regulate the private installation of alarms but to regulate bouncers/private security guards. How many thugs working as bouncers have you come across over the years? If the PSA can help weed out the psychos and gangsters from the industry then it'll be money well spent.

The PSA does regulate commercial alarm installers and rightly so. Do you want to have your alarm system installed by some cowboy who might come back and rob your house?

I know what the main point of the PSA is. The question is why are they interfering in the domestic (or commercial) alarm installation sector. To answer your question about cowboys.

First, you seem to assume that this legislation will do something to prevent cowboys. Maybe you would explain how that will happen?

Second, what problem was there with alarms being installed, where the installer came back and robbed the house? Did this ever actually happen?

Third, why the attention to alarm installers exclusively (with respect to both of the points above)? Will the government be regulating chimney sweeps, plumbers or builders in the same way, since they all have access to people's houses, and there are cowboys out there doing these jobs.

The PSA doesn't have any function in relation to DIY alarm installation whether someone's putting an alarm into their own home or in the home of a relative or friend even if they get paid a few quid.

My reading of the law, is that if money changes hands, then the regulations apply. And that was the opinion of the people on the program too.

[sparkey321]

A number of years ago a similar thing was done by RECCI. Only a RECCI registed person could sign a cert to get the ESB to connect power to your new home.

(remember they ran a series of TV adds where RECI members had halo's and non RECI members were cowboys.

To become a member of RECI you had to pay a substantial fee and a charge for each book of certs.
You had to own a set of instruments and meters.
You did not have to be a qualified electrician (a short 2 day course would suffice).

In theory you could walk off the street with cash, pay the fee, buy the meters do a 2 day course and drive a van with the RECI logo on the side and start wiring houses and getting power connected.

Since then at least one other organization has set up who can also provide certification for the ESB and that resulted in the registrations fees dropping hugely overnight.

You still do not have to be a qualified electrician to register and can still complete a 2 day course and buy the meters.

[michael1965]

It is similar with this, because this has nothing to do with technical standards for alarms, which have been around for years, and been updated continuously via the EU.

I've been reading a bit more about it, and apparently, there is a peculiar catch 22 situation between the technical qualifications and these regulations. In order to qualify for the technical standard, an alarm installer has to first complete a number of installations, but it's illegal to install alarms without being registered first. So, you have to apply for an exemption. It's bizarre.

Also, before you can even get the exemption, you have to be vetted by the Gardai. Do the Gardai not have more important fish to fry, than this?

[odie1kanobe]

Also, before you can even get the exemption, you have to be vetted by the Gardai. Do the Gardai not have more important fish to fry, than this?

You mean you would let someone in to look around your house and quote on installing Burglar alarms and think that the Gardai vetting them isn't important ????

[michael1965]

Also, before you can even get the exemption, you have to be vetted by the Gardai. Do the Gardai not have more important fish to fry, than this?

You mean you would let someone in to look around your house and quote on installing Burglar alarms and think that the Gardai vetting them isn't important ????

In an ideal world, it would be great if the Gardai could vet everybody who walks in your door. But seriously, what is so special about alarm installers? Have there really been many cases, where they came back and robbed someone's house??