66% want immigration clampdown: Poll

[jfk2008]

Rathmines_Corkonian, there is no way to prevent immigration from other EU countries - we made our choice in 2004 and we legally have to stick to it now. The majority of the old EU 15 have opened their labour markets by now anyway, although Germany and France still have restrictions until 2011. The combination of recession, higher unemployment, greater construction job opportunities abroad (London Olympics etc.) and the mandatory opening of the remaining EU labour markets to the 2004 accession state nationals, especially Germany, from 2011 onwards will lead to a significant decline in the numbers of immigrants from the 2004 accession states.

Despite that, immigration is now a fact of life in Ireland and we'll just have to get used to it. There are a few things that can be done to improve immigration policy:

* develop bilateral, reciprocal immigration/emigration treaties with selected countries which will be of mutual benefit to Ireland/other country
* publicise these treaties widely so that people who complain about immigration can see that Irish emigrants get the same deal as immigrants from those countries
* bring in a Canadian-style system for non-EU immigration
* develop a list of safe countries from which asylum claims (unless backed up by irrefutable evidence) will be automatically rejected
* publicise this policy in these 'safe countries' to discourage speculative asylum claims
* integration of existing immigrants - give grants to organisations like the GAA, Conradh na Gaeilge, Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éirean, Cumann Cheol Tíre Éireann and similar organisations to operate outreach programmes to encourage immigrants to learn about and actively participate in Irish culture. The successful participation of immigrants and people of mixed Irish-foreign backgrounds (like Seán Óg Ó hAilpín) in areas of traditional Irish culture can be achieved with a small bit of effort.

[YukonTom]

well hopefully there will be an anti-immigrant party in the next election that i and most other irish people can vote for.
You should see galway city at the moment thousands unemployed and blacks everywhere, most of the taxis are black africans, well a lot of galway people wont go near them so hopefully if enough dont go to there taxis they will get the message we dont want them in ireland with 20 kids hanging off them.

[jfk2008]

[quote=Rathmines_Corkonian]

Or to take another view 54% think that immigration has been good for the country. These are not contradictory messages. Immigration has been the single best thing to happen to this country in the past decade. However as the economy goes into recession, we need to review our skills needs. Immigration should be more controlled. However the market has a habit of correcting itself. I'm already hearing about scores of skilled immigrants in the construction sector on the move to the UK to start workl on the London Olympics projects.

If only,

"Hundreds of unemployed Irish construction workers who have emigrated to London looking for employment on projects related to the 2012 Olympics have found that there is no work available

A source in an Irish-owned employment agency in London also confirmed an increasing number of Irish on the company's books, from tradesmen to civil and building engineers. Many of the construction workers' partners were also looking for work, she said. While the Irish have an excellent reputation, it is no longer enough in the cut-price market place. One small builder with Irish roots said an unskilled Polish worker would work for £40 a day "tops" while a skilled Pole would work for £70. English and Irish workers were more likely to want £120, he said."

Source: tribune.ie

There is plenty of excess labour in England as well. It may represent an opportunity, for skilled labour, Quantity surveyors etc.[/quote:ecy4c8hm]

This story suggests that Poles etc. are finding it relatively easy to find work in London and so they'll leave Ireland and go there if they can't find work here. The Irish and British workers will just have to be more realistic about the wages they're prepared to accept - £70.00 per day is a lot better than being on the dole.

[Centurian]

The question is what can the government do about this desire for a clampdown. Most immigrants are EU citizens. Some symbolic deprotations of Nigerians perhaps?

Why on earth are people accepting that nothing can be done about the crazy amount of immigration from tin pot Eastern European countries ? We're an independent country. If the political will was there (the public demand certainly is) they could be sent back where they belong. The brothels and prisons of Eastern Europe have been emptied into Ireland. It's an absolute disgrace ! .

[Rathmines_Corkonian]

Rathmines_Corkonian, there is no way to prevent immigration from other EU countries - we made our choice in 2004 and we legally have to stick to it now. The majority of the old EU 15 have opened their labour markets by now anyway, although Germany and France still have restrictions until 2011. The combination of recession, higher unemployment, greater construction job opportunities abroad (London Olympics etc.) and the mandatory opening of the remaining EU labour markets to the 2004 accession state nationals, especially Germany, from 2011 onwards will lead to a significant decline in the numbers of immigrants from the 2004 accession states.

Despite that, immigration is now a fact of life in Ireland and we'll just have to get used to it. There are a few things that can be done to improve immigration policy:

* develop bilateral, reciprocal immigration/emigration treaties with selected countries which will be of mutual benefit to Ireland/other country
* publicise these treaties widely so that people who complain about immigration can see that Irish emigrants get the same deal as immigrants from those countries
* bring in a Canadian-style system for non-EU immigration
* develop a list of safe countries from which asylum claims (unless backed up by irrefutable evidence) will be automatically rejected
* publicise this policy in these 'safe countries' to discourage speculative asylum claims
* integration of existing immigrants - give grants to organisations like the GAA, Conradh na Gaeilge, Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éirean, Cumann Cheol Tíre Éireann and similar organisations to operate outreach programmes to encourage immigrants to learn about and actively participate in Irish culture. The successful participation of immigrants and people of mixed Irish-foreign backgrounds (like Seán Óg Ó hAilpín) in areas of traditional Irish culture can be achieved with a small bit of effort.

Agree with the above points fully. I feel that Ireland and Britain will continue to be the main focus of Eastern European immigration to Ireland, precendt set, most East Europeans learning English as second language.

[jfk2008]

There will be continuing immigration from the new accession states into Ireland and Britain under good economic circumstances now that there are established communities here which will facilitate chain migration. But Germany has traditionally been the number one choice for immigrants from these countries and post-2011 will regain that role, especially if the Irish and UK economies continue to to remain in recession. There's plenty of work in places like Bavaria where the economy is based on high-end manufacturing, not speculative construction and property bubbles.

[Twin Towers]

£70.00 per day is a lot better than being on the dole.

£70.00 per day! with an average mortgage alone being £1500 pm and a 1 bedroom apartment costing £1000+ to rent.

[myksav]

This is the headline news in both the Irish Times and Examiner tomorrow as on Vincent Browne on TV3. I do not know who carried out the poll but the fact that both the Times and Examiner carry it may mean that it may be a result of the government Lisbon conducted poll. I could be wrong but we will see it online in a while.

The question is what can the government do about this desire for a clampdown. Most immigrants are EU citizens. Some symbolic deprotations of Nigerians perhaps?

None of the illegal immigrants are EU citizens. Nor any of the asylum seekers - i.e. illegal immigrants masquerading as refugees.

As for the EU citizens, the government could seek an end to the free immigration provisions of the EU treaties as a condition of putting Lisbon before the people again.

That would require a re-negotiation of the Lisbon Treaty. And we've been told over and over that there can be no re-negotiation of the Treaty. So that's a non-runner.

[akanji]

The Establishment must listen to the result of this and similar polls. We are losing patience with their liberal elitism, divorced of concerns for the working-class and their struggles to find work. And we are increasingly fed up of being told that our concerns reflect a situation of us being less 'educated' than them. This is not about racism, but about preserving Irish identity, Irish jobs, and avoiding the overcrowding in our hospitals and schools. It is not a sentiment against immigrants as people, but against a policy of mass-immigration without effective controls. No controls, no treaty. The time is coming when the people will have to make a choice as to whether they continue to support politicians with whom they utterly disagree on immigration. It may be necessary for FF and FG to bury the hatchet and go into govt together, so that they can implement policies reflecting legitimate public concerns on immigration, freed from the chains of leftwing parties and their associated pressure-groups.

Otherwise, the Irish people need to put their money where their mouth is and establish political-parties that will give the people sensible controls that reconcile the need occasionally for some migrant labour in some high-skilled industries, with the need to protect Irish jobs in a recession. Any notions of social-engineering with a view to assimilating the Irish people into some artificial 'European' identity must be cast aside, because we prefer our own Irish identity and sovereignty.

I agree with the majority of what you have said FT. However as usual you fail to mention who really benefits from inward migration. The business community, the whole agenda is about creating employment and employee markets and has little to do with the European experiment. Karl Marx predicted that this would happen. Perhaps he did not envisage how rapidly it would take place but he knew that the dynamic forces of capitalism would change the face of the world.

Globalisation is not an accident but a systematic, full frontal attack on the old world order. A bit like what the industrial revolution did to argrarian society only more so. So venting your spleen at ineffectual left wing groups is just a distraction FT. It is the parties of the right that have promoted this tidal wave of migration. When you accept this then maybe you will be able to see who the enemy really is. It is not immigrants but the people who have done very well from immigration.

What is the meaning of sinn fein ?
To my understanding it means ourself alone, But that meaning is gone are the days not now. l.o.l

Even the Fianna fail that are born to govern the country now agree that a system of inequality in the labour market and indeed all means of our life in terms of immigrations is now endemic in the country but to curtail it is another thing anyway.

[jfk2008]

£70.00 per day is a lot better than being on the dole.

£70.00 per day! with an average mortgage alone being £1500 pm and a 1 bedroom apartment costing £1000+ to rent.

Compared with about £70.00 per week or so for someone on the dole in the UK it is a lot better.

Any Irish or British construction workers are going to have to accept lower wages and a lower standard of living if they want to stay in that game for the time being. If they're not prepared to put up with this reality then they'll have to find some other line of work.

Let's face it - about the only place in the world right now that hasn't been affected by the global construction crash is China and I can't see too many lads from Ireland getting work out there, can you?

They have limited choices - accept the lower wages while the slump lasts, get the hell out and find something else or sign on the dole for the next few years.