Immigrating Irish - a bitter or a better taste?

[Oppenheimer]

I understand there have been many threads recently either on immigration or deflected to that debate. My intention is not to bring up the past, or indeed present, but a matter for the future. I think there is a very important question to be answered in terms of defining "Irishness".

As we all know, Mr. McWilliams has been long a proponent of accessing the Irish Diaspora (Cowen reaches out to the great Irish tribe) to the benefit of our longer term success. I feel the idea has merit but must be coupled with some grander plan of how we would derive the benefit. I also believe we need to help ourselves in the next phase of development of the country. Do people here feel that the general sentiment to immigration would be swayed by the idea that people of Irish descent, with better education, deeper ties and perhaps a more positive desire to see the success of Ireland, would form the basis of an important element of this next stage of the country's development? Would it dilute or add to our sense of Irishness?

Politically, is this part of a plan that could help the fortunes of Mr. Cowen or would it further alienate him, given that such a move would probably require less restrictive immigration rules for people of Irish descent?

As always, I think most would appreciate this not going down the lines of namecalling or base argument.

[Kev408]

Would it dilute or add to our sense of Irishness?
As always, I think most would appreciate this not going down the lines of namecalling or base argument.

One's sense of Irishness is a personal thing. Anyone whose Irishness can be diluted by other phenomena doesn't have a deep sense of Irishness in the first place.
Good luck with the no name-calling thingy - not a hope.

[Centurian]

Politically, is this part of a plan that could help the fortunes of Mr. Cowen or would it further alienate him, given that suchsh a move would probably require less restrictive immigration rules for people of Irish descent?

Are you being ironic ? - How on earth could our immigration rules be any less restrictive than they are at the moment ? .

[gnash1970]

Politically, is this part of a plan that could help the fortunes of Mr. Cowen or would it further alienate him, given that suchsh a move would probably require less restrictive immigration rules for people of Irish descent?

Are you being ironic ? - How on earth could our immigration rules be any less restrictive than they are at the moment ? .

If we were to remove border checks and allow anyone from anywhere come here.

[returning officer]

I understand there have been many threads recently either on immigration or deflected to that debate. My intention is not to bring up the past, or indeed present, but a matter for the future. I think there is a very important question to be answered in terms of defining "Irishness".

As we all know, Mr. McWilliams has been a long proponent of accessing the Irish Diaspora (Cowen reaches out to the great Irish tribe) to the benefit of our longer term success. I feel the idea has merit but must be coupled with some grander plan of how we would derive the benefit. I also believe we need to help ourselves in the next phase of development of the country. Do people here feel that the general sentiment to immigration would be swayed by the idea that people of Irish descent, with better education, deeper ties and perhaps a more positive desire to see the success of Ireland, would form the basis of an important element of this next stage of the country's development? Would it dilute or add to our sense of Irishness?

Politically, is this part of a plan that could help the fortunes of Mr. Cowen or would it further alienate him, given that cush a move would probably require less restrictive immigration rules for people of Irish descent?

As always, I think most would appreciate this not going down the lines of namecalling or base argument.

This is a good point and worth a response before it is taken over by an immgrants to Ireland debate.

The profile of the people leaving is interesting. Judging by antedotal evidence only, it appears to be very-well educated and tradesmen. Many of the very-well-educated have been emigrating for the last 30 years - this continued during the last 15 but went under the radar because we also had very well educated immgrants (in one year of the Celtic Tiger there were more US born people emigrating to Ireland, than the number of Irish born emigrating to the US). Tradesmen on the other hand move in greater numbers and tend to be younger and therefore more mobile. They could return. But many will not thereby re-restablishing a new wave the disaspora.

One of the potential casualties of the peace process could have been our regular meeting in Washington DC. With no pressing problem and decreasing supply of new citizens, there was a threat to our access (usually oversated as influence). That will lessen but more emmigrants means a new constituency for the receiving country.

This has it's benefits, but it was certainly not part of any plan.

[Oppenheimer]

Politically, is this part of a plan that could help the fortunes of Mr. Cowen or would it further alienate him, given that suchsh a move would probably require less restrictive immigration rules for people of Irish descent?

Are you being ironic ? - How on earth could our immigration rules be any less restrictive than they are at the moment ? .

May be from the EU nations, but what is the process for a US, Canadia, Australian etc. where there are large sections of the population of Irish descent?

[Oppenheimer]

Would it dilute or add to our sense of Irishness?
As always, I think most would appreciate this not going down the lines of namecalling or base argument.

One's sense of Irishness is a personal thing. Anyone whose Irishness can be diluted by other phenomena doesn't have a deep sense of Irishness in the first place.
Good luck with the no name-calling thingy - not a hope.

I'd agree that overall, your sense of Irishness is a personal thing, but many elements are shared - its not so easy to define. Points such as an appreciation of the heritage are often amplified in Irish people, for instance, when they are admired by visitors.

As to your other point - one lives in hope!

[arnold lane]

Would it dilute or add to our sense of Irishness?
As always, I think most would appreciate this not going down the lines of namecalling or base argument.

One's sense of Irishness is a personal thing. Anyone whose Irishness can be diluted by other phenomena doesn't have a deep sense of Irishness in the first place.
Good luck with the no name-calling thingy - not a hope.

Well, kev, why don't you set a good example by promising to put a rein on your abuse. Your record of name-calling is up there with the worst. Try posting without using the word "racist"--it can be done, you know!

As to original poster, yes, I support an effort to engage with those abroad who have kept a sense of Irishness, often in difficult circumstances. Our constitution has some mumbo-jumbo about cherishing links with those of Irish heritage abroad. It was put in as a sop when Articles 2 & 3 were being attacked. Needless to say, Fianna Fail have never given a moment's thought to it since then.

[arnold lane]

I understand there have been many threads recently either on immigration or deflected to that debate. My intention is not to bring up the past, or indeed present, but a matter for the future. I think there is a very important question to be answered in terms of defining "Irishness".

As we all know, Mr. McWilliams has been a long proponent of accessing the Irish Diaspora (Cowen reaches out to the great Irish tribe) to the benefit of our longer term success. I feel the idea has merit but must be coupled with some grander plan of how we would derive the benefit. I also believe we need to help ourselves in the next phase of development of the country. Do people here feel that the general sentiment to immigration would be swayed by the idea that people of Irish descent, with better education, deeper ties and perhaps a more positive desire to see the success of Ireland, would form the basis of an important element of this next stage of the country's development? Would it dilute or add to our sense of Irishness?

Politically, is this part of a plan that could help the fortunes of Mr. Cowen or would it further alienate him, given that cush a move would probably require less restrictive immigration rules for people of Irish descent?

As always, I think most would appreciate this not going down the lines of namecalling or base argument.

This is a good point and worth a response before it is taken over by an immgrants to Ireland debate.

The profile of the people leaving is interesting. Judging by antedotal evidence only, it appears to be very-well educated and tradesmen. Many of the very-well-educated have been emigrating for the last 30 years - this continued during the last 15 but went under the radar because we also had very well educated immgrants (in one year of the Celtic Tiger there were more US born people emigrating to Ireland, than the number of Irish born emigrating to the US). Tradesmen on the other hand move in greater numbers and tend to be younger and therefore more mobile. They could return. But many will not thereby re-restablishing a new wave the disaspora.

One of the potential casualties of the peace process could have been our regular meeting in Washington DC. With no pressing problem and decreasing supply of new citizens, there was a threat to our access (usually oversated as influence). That will lessen but more emmigrants means a new constituency for the receiving country.

This has it's benefits, but it was certainly not part of any plan.

I think you are misundertanding the point. You are talking about Irish emigrants abroad. McWilliams has written about engaging with the descendents of Irish emigrants abroad. Two totally different categories.

[arnold lane]

Politically, is this part of a plan that could help the fortunes of Mr. Cowen or would it further alienate him, given that suchsh a move would probably require less restrictive immigration rules for people of Irish descent?

Are you being ironic ? - How on earth could our immigration rules be any less restrictive than they are at the moment ? .

May be from the EU nations, but what is the process for a US, Canadia, Australian etc. where there are large sections of the population of Irish descent?

Irish Argentinians have for decades been complaining about the fact that they are denied the right to come and work in the land of their ancestors. Someone from Buenos Aires who has immersed himself in Irish history and mythology, plays the fiddle and speaks at least rudimentary Irish is hauled aside at Dublin AIrport Immigration, while the Latvians and Romanians sail serenely thru.