The last writhings of a society left beached by history

[Bogwarrior]

Seems a very optimistic interpretation. Sugguesting middle-class unionism is unworried by the prospect of a united Ireland is way off. If that was the case the DUP wouldn't have swept the board at the last elections and the Alliance party would have done a lot better.

I don't know. Remember the 200,000 odd unionists who voted for the GFA and haven't surfaced since? That seems to suggest that they don't really care either way about the whole thing.

There is a middle class constituency there who must be getting increasingly alarmed at the direction unionism is headed.Interesting that Alliance sees that and have been confident enough to among the strongest critics of the recent antics.

The "middle class" are as sectarian as the bling bling lads of the Shankill. At least with the bling bling boys, you know where you stand. Middle class Loyalists, are discreet about what they say and do, but scratch the surface, and you'll find they hate Taigs as well. As for Alliance, they went "Unionist" to keep Stormont alive, during an important debate. I've lived all my life in the North, and never met an Alliance voter.

[Justin]

Seems a very optimistic interpretation. Sugguesting middle-class unionism is unworried by the prospect of a united Ireland is way off. If that was the case the DUP wouldn't have swept the board at the last elections and the Alliance party would have done a lot better.

I don't know. Remember the 200,000 odd unionists who voted for the GFA and haven't surfaced since? That seems to suggest that they don't really care either way about the whole thing.

There is a middle class constituency there who must be getting increasingly alarmed at the direction unionism is headed.Interesting that Alliance sees that and have been confident enough to among the strongest critics of the recent antics.

The "middle class" are as sectarian as the bling bling lads of the Shankill. At least with the bling bling boys, you know where you stand. Middle class Loyalists, are discreet about what they say and do, but scratch the surface, and you'll find they hate Taigs as well. As for Alliance, they went "Unionist" to keep Stormont alive, during an important debate. I've lived all my life in the North, and never met an Alliance voter.

Don't disagree.Still unionism could find a new direction if(big) the goverments tell this "leadership" that the game's up....

[Cato]

As I'm sure has been said before, the loyalist working class community is cursed in it's leaders. It is also been slowly but surely abandoned by the the unionist middle classes, as they leave for the suberbs and the UK.
Nationalist working class communities were cut out of the traditional industries by unionists, so their leadership focused on community development and education. As the old industries declined the loyalists have found themslves cut off as the educated nationalists have taken the non traditional industry jobs.
Sinn Fein have successfully led their community towards a historic commpromise, distasteful to some of them, without losing to many of them on the way. The contrast with the loyalists couldn't be stronger - a complete failure to lay out any new vision. Instead they just blame everyone but themselves for the problems - even for their own riots when they trash their own areas
The sad truth for unionists is that the Britain the profess so much loyalty for, bears no loyalty for them. Most British people I know don't know much about the North (or Ireland) and what they do know makes them want to get rid of it.

[Bogwarrior]

As I'm sure has been said before, the loyalist working class community is cursed in it's leaders. It is also been slowly but surely abandoned by the the unionist middle classes, as they leave for the suberbs and the UK.
Nationalist working class communities were cut out of the traditional industries by unionists, so their leadership focused on community development and education. As the old industries declined the loyalists have found themslves cut off as the educated nationalists have taken the non traditional industry jobs.
Sinn Fein have successfully led their community towards a historic commpromise, distasteful to some of them, without losing to many of them on the way. The contrast with the loyalists couldn't be stronger - a complete failure to lay out any new vision. Instead they just blame everyone but themselves for the problems - even for their own riots when they trash their own areas
The sad truth for unionists is that the Britain the profess so much loyalty for, bears no loyalty for them. Most British people I know don't know much about the North (or Ireland) and what they do know makes them want to get rid of it.

But Republicans were also rioting in Ardoyne last month, and in Derry at the weekend, despite PSF's " successfully leading them to an historic compromise". Whats your take on that?

[Cato]

As I'm sure has been said before, the loyalist working class community is cursed in it's leaders. It is also been slowly but surely abandoned by the the unionist middle classes, as they leave for the suberbs and the UK.
Nationalist working class communities were cut out of the traditional industries by unionists, so their leadership focused on community development and education. As the old industries declined the loyalists have found themslves cut off as the educated nationalists have taken the non traditional industry jobs.
Sinn Fein have successfully led their community towards a historic commpromise, distasteful to some of them, without losing to many of them on the way. The contrast with the loyalists couldn't be stronger - a complete failure to lay out any new vision. Instead they just blame everyone but themselves for the problems - even for their own riots when they trash their own areas

The sad truth for unionists is that the Britain the profess so much loyalty for, bears no loyalty for them. Most British people I know don't know much about the North (or Ireland) and what they do know makes them want to get rid of it.

But Republicans were also rioting in Ardoyne last month, and in Derry at the weekend, despite PSF's " successfully leading them to an historic compromise". Whats your take on that?

Simple question for you; Does the majority of the nationalist community still support the GFA, which represents a historic compromise on the previously held SF possition? A compromise that the unionists in their own navel gazing have failed to recognise.

[Bogwarrior]

As I'm sure has been said before, the loyalist working class community is cursed in it's leaders. It is also been slowly but surely abandoned by the the unionist middle classes, as they leave for the suberbs and the UK.
Nationalist working class communities were cut out of the traditional industries by unionists, so their leadership focused on community development and education. As the old industries declined the loyalists have found themslves cut off as the educated nationalists have taken the non traditional industry jobs.
Sinn Fein have successfully led their community towards a historic commpromise, distasteful to some of them, without losing to many of them on the way. The contrast with the loyalists couldn't be stronger - a complete failure to lay out any new vision. Instead they just blame everyone but themselves for the problems - even for their own riots when they trash their own areas

The sad truth for unionists is that the Britain the profess so much loyalty for, bears no loyalty for them. Most British people I know don't know much about the North (or Ireland) and what they do know makes them want to get rid of it.

But Republicans were also rioting in Ardoyne last month, and in Derry at the weekend, despite PSF's " successfully leading them to an historic compromise". Whats your take on that?

Simple question for you; Does the majority of the nationalist community still support the GFA, which represents a historic compromise on the previously held SF possition? A compromise that the unionists in their own navel gazing have failed to recognise.

As far as I remember, in the Referendum, the majority of Nationalists didn't vote. Now, can you answer my question?

[Cato]

As I'm sure has been said before, the loyalist working class community is cursed in it's leaders. It is also been slowly but surely abandoned by the the unionist middle classes, as they leave for the suberbs and the UK.
Nationalist working class communities were cut out of the traditional industries by unionists, so their leadership focused on community development and education. As the old industries declined the loyalists have found themslves cut off as the educated nationalists have taken the non traditional industry jobs.
Sinn Fein have successfully led their community towards a historic commpromise, distasteful to some of them, without losing to many of them on the way. The contrast with the loyalists couldn't be stronger - a complete failure to lay out any new vision. Instead they just blame everyone but themselves for the problems - even for their own riots when they trash their own areas

The sad truth for unionists is that the Britain the profess so much loyalty for, bears no loyalty for them. Most British people I know don't know much about the North (or Ireland) and what they do know makes them want to get rid of it.

But Republicans were also rioting in Ardoyne last month, and in Derry at the weekend, despite PSF's " successfully leading them to an historic compromise". Whats your take on that?

Simple question for you; Does the majority of the nationalist community still support the GFA, which represents a historic compromise on the previously held SF possition? A compromise that the unionists in their own navel gazing have failed to recognise.

As far as I remember, in the Referendum, the majority of Nationalists didn't vote. Now, can you answer my question?

As far as I'm concerned the only the votes that are cast count. Bizzare that the DUP also have declared that the majority of unionists did not vote - so just who did, and in a secret balot how would you know.
I think that the riots in loyalist areas are symtoms of a deeper malise, nationalist tend to riot in response to an immediate cause. Nationalist leaders also tend to be seen trying to control things - this cannot be said of loyalists.
The big disapointment is that SF have failed to engage on policing, but give them time.
Question for you; do you recognise the difference in quality in the leadership of both communities?

[Carrier]

Seems a very optimistic interpretation. Sugguesting middle-class unionism is unworried by the prospect of a united Ireland is way off. If that was the case the DUP wouldn't have swept the board at the last elections and the Alliance party would have done a lot better.

I don't know. Remember the 200,000 odd unionists who voted for the GFA and haven't surfaced since? That seems to suggest that they don't really care either way about the whole thing.

'vote yes, vote for peace'. They voted to end the conflict.