'dream' immigration policy

[Adonis]

As immigration is a hot topic here and in Britain I'm curious as to what the average
p.ie users 'Dream' Immigration policy would be?

• Increase in payments for refugees?
• Mandatory AIDS/HIV clearance?
• Proof of prospective employment?
• Skills in demand for the economy only?
• Mandatory basic English?
• Immediate access to welfare systems?
• Limited number of appeals to denial of asylum?
• Must know about Irish history/culture?
• Must pledge allegiance (or something of the sort) to Ireland?
• Should our new arrivals assimilate to Ireland or do we use Britains multi-cultural model?
• Is the free-roaming policy that we have for some of our European neighbours a good thing or a policy that is open to abuse?
• Loosening or tightening of restrictions for non-EU immigrants?

Thoughts please....

[Kildare01]

I like the skills in demand of the economy only. Also, no previous criminal convictions and a good grasp of the english language.
Especially the clean criminal record, after what has happened recently.

[colgan]

A dream immigration policy would be that we wouldn't need one.

Because countries globally would be at such a level of economic development that there would be no mass migration as people would have jobs, would not suffer poverty, there would be no great difference in health care, education, the prevalence of disease, and their would be few if any famines wars etc

the only need would be to ensure that workers can move freely in order to fill gaps in workforces around the globe.

that would be a dream immigration policy.

[Aindriu]

As immigration is a hot topic here and in Britain I'm curious as to what the average
p.ie users 'Dream' Immigration policy would be?

• Increase in payments for refugees? [color=#0040FFDefinitely not.][/color]
• Mandatory AIDS/HIV clearance? [color=#0040FF]Most certainly[/color]
• Proof of prospective employment? [color=#0040FF]Most certainly[/color]
• Skills in demand for the economy only? [color=#0040FF]Definitely[/color]
• Mandatory basic English? [color=#0040FF]Obviously[/color]
• Immediate access to welfare systems? [color=#0040FF]No - after a qualifying period[/color]
• Limited number of appeals to denial of asylum? [color=#0040FF]Yes[/color]
• Must know about Irish history/culture? [color=#0040FF]Yes[/color]
• Must pledge allegiance (or something of the sort) to Ireland? [color=#0040FF]Definitely[/color]
• Should our new arrivals assimilate to Ireland or do we use Britains multi-cultural model? [color=#0040FF]Assimilate[/color]
• Is the free-roaming policy that we have for some of our European neighbours a good thing or a policy that is open to abuse? [color=#0040FF]Extremely bad[/color]
• Loosening or tightening of restrictions for non-EU immigrants? [color=#0040FF]Tighten[/color]

Thoughts please....

[MichaelR]

Non-EU worker meself

As immigration is a hot topic here and in Britain I'm curious as to what the average
p.ie users 'Dream' Immigration policy would be?

• Increase in payments for refugees?

No. Refugees and especially asylum seekers should be provided for "in kind" and not by payment.

• Mandatory AIDS/HIV clearance?

As long as it's practicable without a surge in bureaucracy.

• Proof of prospective employment?

For non-EU people, except refugees and students, this is required already.

• Skills in demand for the economy only?

In place already, through a list of skills and a market test for the rest. Perhaps throw in mandatory private medical ensurance.

• Mandatory basic English?

Don't see the necessity. For asylum seekers it defeats the purpose, for employees this should be a matter for the employer, and students may be coming in to learn it!

• Immediate access to welfare systems?

As I mentioned, refugees and asylum seekers shoudl be provided for "in kind". As for the rest, they are taxpayers; PRSI waiting periods already in place do limit access in a fair way.

• Limited number of appeals to denial of asylum?

Possibly, but expediting the existing methods should be a priority. A decision should not take months. The drawn out bureaucracy hurts both genuine refugees and the Irish taxpayer who has to support candidates.

• Must know about Irish history/culture?

Really unfair at point of entry. Might be made a requirement for long term residence, as long as there are no ideological limits (i.e. a commitment to Unionism, or to Republicanism, would not disqualify). SHOULD be made a requirement for naturalization.

• Must pledge allegiance (or something of the sort) to Ireland?

Definitely not allegiance - this is for citizens, and for good reasons. This might also force the person to break the law of the home country.

Agreeing to obey the law and to support its basic premises (i.e. secular state and validity of secular lawmaking) is a good idea. But don't overdo it by deporting people for crossing the road on a red light.

• Should our new arrivals assimilate to Ireland or do we use Britains multi-cultural model?

I'd support a healthy mix of "assimilation" and "integration". "Multiculturalism" does not work.

• Is the free-roaming policy that we have for some of our European neighbours a good thing or a policy that is open to abuse?

While it may be sometimes open to abuse, it should be viewed as a part of the general European Union project, and included in the general cost-benefit analysis for that.

• Loosening or tightening of restrictions for non-EU immigrants?

Fine-tune. The general level seems optimal, except for asylum seekers where the rules should be *better and faster enforced* (and possibly tightened, but enforcement is first priority).

[JCSkinner]

As immigration is a hot topic here and in Britain I'm curious as to what the average
p.ie users 'Dream' Immigration policy would be?

• Increase in payments for refugees? NO - and those seeking asylum at entrances to the State should be automatically refused. We should remove ourselves from all refugee conventions and instead instigate, with the help of Irish Aid and the many Irish NGOs around the world, a unilateral, pro-active refugee patriation programme.
See here: http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2007/07/ ... sylum.html
• Mandatory AIDS/HIV clearance? YES, ALSO SCREENING FOR TB, CHOLERA and OTHER INFECTIOUS REPORTABLE DISEASES AS DEFINED BY THE NDSC.
• Proof of prospective employment? ESSENTIAL FOR ALL ECONOMIC MIGRANTS. No coming here 'on spec' anymore. We urgently need a points based system designed to attract only those highly skilled people who will match with needs in our economy, such as Australia and Canada have long implemented.
• Skills in demand for the economy only? ABSOLUTELY.
• Mandatory basic English? MANDATORY FLUENT ENGLISH. Also bonus points for speaking other languages fluently.
• Immediate access to welfare systems? CERTAINLY NOT. Pay tax before you can suckle from the tax teat.
• Limited number of appeals to denial of asylum? ZERO APPEAL. SEE ABOVE. With a pro-active system where we go out and find the refugees that truly deserve a chance at a better life free from persecution, there would be no applications for asylum and therefore no need for appeals. All people seeking asylum outside of our pro-active policy would be de facto refused without appeal.
• Must know about Irish history/culture? ECONOMIC MIGRANTS - YES. Refugees, NO.
• Must pledge allegiance (or something of the sort) to Ireland? YES for THOSE WHO SEEK IRISH CITIZENSHIP, which would be restricted to those with five years or more of uninterrupted tax payments.
• Should our new arrivals assimilate to Ireland or do we use Britains multi-cultural model? ASSIMILATE OR LEAVE. We have a right to preserve the Irishness of the state, while respecting religious freedom.
• Is the free-roaming policy that we have for some of our European neighbours a good thing or a policy that is open to abuse? CLEARLY IT IS ABUSED.
• Loosening or tightening of restrictions for non-EU immigrants? A TOTAL TIGHTENING, IN ORDER TO ERADICATE IMMIGRATION FROM LOW-SKILLED ECONOMIC MIGRANTS UNDER THE FALSE FLAG OF REFUGEE APPLICATIONS.

Thoughts please....

[MichaelR]

JCSkinner: there is no way for a non-EU economic migrant to come "on spec". There was a way to get a really better deal (freely changing employer) if you had both an employer ans "spec" but that is largely out since February 2007.

As for citizenship, I would say 5 years of uninterrupted tax payment may be too hard on minors and dependants. But a history/culture requirement should probably be there; I think an English test already exists. Perhaps mandatory *basic* Irish shold be considered, on the ground of requiring a certain minimal education from all citizens (natives get that at school). The oath of allegiance might be made stronger and, importantly, enforceable; anyone naturalized and claiming "only Allah can set laws" should forfeit citizenship.

Hictory/culture for economic migtrants at point of entry does not seem fair - to employer, not just employee. If one is getting in a trained IT specialist, for a project that is under way, waiting for the person to learn through some textbook is a definitre waste of time.

[JCSkinner]

Of course t hey come 'on spec', Michael. They come in the guise of asylum seekers. See the Justice figures that indicate that the VAST majority of Nigerians who sought asylum here were, even after exhausting the appeals process, still not entitled to asylum at all. What are they doing here then? Chancing their arms as economic migrants is what.

[MichaelR]

Of course t hey come 'on spec', Michael. They come in the guise of asylum seekers. See the Justice figures that indicate that the VAST majority of Nigerians who sought asylum here were, even after exhausting the appeals process, still not entitled to asylum at all. What are they doing here then? Chancing their arms as economic migrants is what.

OK, sorry, I was thinking of the normal economic migration channels. (I am naturally well acquanited with those).

I'm not sure I support your idea, just because withdrawing from treaties might hit Ireland's standing in Europe. However, I also think the system should be remodelled based on the EU countries which are seen as tough; what's OK for Germany or France should be OK for Ireland. This includes camps for asylum seekers.

I also don't agree with your overall evaluation of Nigeria as safe, seeing as some of its states have Shariah and female genital mutilation is rampant. (Disclosure: I have no personal connection to any Nigerians, but sympathize with the Protestants because of common religion). However this has another side; anyone who tries to bring any of that stuff into Ireland should be punished AND deported, for the sake of the genuine refugees as well as of Ireland itself.

[JCSkinner]

Of course t hey come 'on spec', Michael. They come in the guise of asylum seekers. See the Justice figures that indicate that the VAST majority of Nigerians who sought asylum here were, even after exhausting the appeals process, still not entitled to asylum at all. What are they doing here then? Chancing their arms as economic migrants is what.

OK, sorry, I was thinking of the normal economic migration channels. (I am naturally well acquanited with those).

I'm not sure I support your idea, just because withdrawing from treaties might hit Ireland's standing in Europe. However, I also think the system should be remodelled based on the EU countries which are seen as tough; what's OK for Germany or France should be OK for Ireland. This includes camps for asylum seekers.

I also don't agree with your overall evaluation of Nigeria as safe, seeing as some of its states have Shariah and female genital mutilation is rampant. (Disclosure: I have no personal connection to any Nigerians, but sympathize with the Protestants because of common religion). However this has another side; anyone who tries to bring any of that stuff into Ireland should be punished AND deported, for the sake of the genuine refugees as well as of Ireland itself.

There is no war in Nigeria. Over 90% of Nigerians seeking asylum in Ireland are refused. There is a long-running major scam going on whereby Nigerians abuse the asylum system in order to gain economic migrancy into Ireland.
They're not the only culprits, just the most obvious and blatant ones.
I think that if we led the way on asylum and by taking pro-active control over it, which we are perfectly positioned to do, because of the positioning and expertise of both Irish Aid and Irish aid agencies like Trocaire, Goal, etc, then other countries would follow our example. We need to utterly disincentivise those who would seek to gain access to this country for economic reasons without fulfilling a stringent series of requirements based on OUR workforce needs. The only way to do that is to create a situation where such people realise that it is fruitless seeking to gain access to Ireland without the correct documentation, as they will simply be fined and returned to their country of origin.
And with the vast sums of money freed up, we can create a genuine asylum programme for those in genuine need, who will never arrive at our airport or doorstep because they are too busy being tortured and starved in places like Sudan, Palestine, Chad, Haiti, and so on.