Catholic Schools = Catholic Ethos

[flakie]

Parents who don't want their children to be taught catholicism don't have to send their kids to Catholic schools.
Why is it so hard to understand?

That simple, huh?

An aquaintance just tried to register her child in a non-denom school.

Couldn't. Full up. Her child is 2.

In areas where there is no alternative but a catholic school, non-catholics are stuck with a catholic education, and have falsehoods, bigotry and superstition inflicted on their learning for no good reason whatsoever.

Does this do anyone any good? (besides the catholics, who sent a request for an easter donation to my mailbox... I hope they enjoy the reply.)

[david]

The problem with this is that Protestant (or muslim) schools will be also unviable without any government funding.

The only answer to this is 'good'.

[Lilac]

besides the catholics, who sent a request for an easter donation to my mailbox... I hope they enjoy the reply.

Where I come from, people say 'thank you(, but...)', I don't know what your primitive nation does...
Eating fish with hands ... yuk (no wonder that you are so fat! )

[hinkar]

besides the catholics, who sent a request for an easter donation to my mailbox... I hope they enjoy the reply.

Where I come from, people say 'thank you(, but...)', I don't know what your primitive nation does...
Eating fish with hands ... yuk (no wonder that you are so fat! )

Ah, Canadians and Poles arguing about Ireland... :wink: (and why not?)

Is that "multiculturalism"?

[david]

Is that "multiculturalism"?

No...it's straying off topic.

[stringjack]

A question which I won't be answering.

Now, you might like to explain the 3 denials reference.

The reference is entirely apposite, if thoroughly unkind.

[borderlinegenius]

A question which I won't be answering.

Now, you might like to explain the 3 denials reference.

The reference is entirely apposite, if thoroughly unkind.

Unkind, perhaps, though thoroughly amusing.

[Zhukov]

The problem with this is that Protestant (or muslim) schools will be also unviable without any government funding. This was one of the reasons for FG's objection to the withdrawal of gov money from fee paying schools.

Do you really advocate an Ireland in which no one can get an education of their own exclusive religion ethos, be they Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholic, or Muslim?

Secondly, I don't see why a school can't teach on "particular issues on which society disagrees" (what exactly???). Should minority religious teaching be not taught if it doesn't agree with the majority's view on some issue?

And finally, ANY social agenda will exclude many teachers, parents, and students. Would you object to a liberal social agenda being taught because it would exclude Catholic teachers, parents, and students?

1. I have explained consistently and repeatedly in many previous posts on this thread that I do not oppose state funding for schools with a religious ethos. I favour the continuation of schools with an ethos favoured by parents, be it Roman Catholic, CofI, Muslim or Pagan.

My issue is with state funding for schools where the "Catholic" ethos is determined by an unaccountable hierarchy. I think the Catholic ethos should conform to the beliefs and wishes of Catholic parents in these schools - I would imagine the issues they would like to see emphasised in the ethos would differ from those of the hierarchy. In conclusion I would like to see schools with a religious ethos that does not marginalise minority groups in the school. I think it is possible to have a religious ethos and respect minority rights.

2. I am referring to specific moral issues on which there is debate in society. I never said the Catholic position should be banned. I said that a variety of positions should be allowed that respects the dignity of all involved in the school (parents, teachers and students). The problem here is that exclusively Catholic positions marginalise and insult a number of groups: homosexuals (I experienced this), unmarried teachers living with partners (my sister experiences this) and those of different faiths (again I experienced this). You may interpret these as minor concerns that people should have to accept but they present serious issues to many people in the education system. Again, I believe it is possible to maintain a Catholic ethos and treat people with respect when debating moral issues that are contentious in society.

3. I am not arguing that a liberal social agenda should replace a Catholic social agenda. I am saying it would be better to allow a variety of opinions and positons in an environment that respects every teacher, student and parent. Disagreement on various issues is inevitable and should remain open to discussion but such disagreement should never stigmatise anyone involved or force them into a position that humiliates them.

[Harpey]

My issue is with state funding for schools where the "Catholic" ethos is determined by an unaccountable hierarchy

If it is, this should be settled in the courts, where the rightfull ownership of the institutions of schools will be heard. Have the govt bought the right to dictate the ciriculum, or by virtue of ownership and the maintainance of trusteeship, are the hierarchy within their right to demand that in thei schools that what they say is thought, is thought.

[Zhukov]

My issue is with state funding for schools where the "Catholic" ethos is determined by an unaccountable hierarchy

If it is, this should be settled in the courts, where the rightfull ownership of the institutions of schools will be heard. Have the govt bought the right to dictate the ciriculum, or by virtue of ownership and the maintainance of trusteeship, are the hierarchy within their right to demand that in thei schools that what they say is thought, is thought.

I'm quite sure this couldn't be settled by the courts given official state recognition for religious ethos education. Secondly, the schools are owned, as opposed to financed, by the religious orders, who are religiously subject to the authority of the Catholic hierarchy. Thus, though the hierarchy do not own the schools, they can dictate the meaning of "Catholic ethos" in a perfectly legal manner.

However, the state would also be perfectly within their rights to regulate the meaning of "ethos" and its influence on the curriculum. They have the authority to increase the role of parents on boards of management of schools that receive state funding. They can regulate standards for teaching on a range of issues, from sex education to a broader religion curriculum.

In this context the state could ensure that "Catholic ethos" means what parents want it to mean rather than how the hierarchy defines it. In this manner Irish education could balance the desire for a religious ethos with the needs of our diverse society.