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  1. #11
    ger12 ger12 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    I know nobody who is pro abortion but carry on with your bullsh!t.
    They're all anti abortion? Go on ...
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  2. #12
    Spanner Island Spanner Island is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    You must lead a very sheltered life.
    I'd like to see a balanced and informative debate about this.

    I'm under no illusions that is impossible in Ireland with reactionaries on both extremes.

    Most people are in the middle.
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  3. #13
    Sync Sync is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonic View Post
    There's no logic there at all.
    If the arguments are to be put & judged of the basis of how "popular" abortion is in the rest of the western world, just go ahead and do it now, why bother with a committee & hearings at all?
    You can have hearings, but you also can't pretend that there's going to be an even split of practicing medical experts to speak. There isn't. They're not out there. And if you're looking for practicing international OBGYNs who are going to say "No abortion in any cases" you're going to have the same struggle.

    And the idea of having 100 people up there bleating "Oh I had an abortion and it was awful" and "Oh I had an abortion and it was great" is so emotive and dumb that I'd rather the TDs were sitting at the side of the road sticking berries up their noses as it would be a more productive use of time.
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  4. #14
    damus damus is offline
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    So essentially certain people who don't agree with or like the views being expressed are questioning the integrity of the medical witnesses who are appearing before the Committee.
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  5. #15
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanner Island View Post
    Most people are in the middle.
    The task of the Dail is to find where the middle is, so far what has been reported has been skewed pro abortion.
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  6. #16
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    You can have hearings, but you also can't pretend that there's going to be an even split of practicing medical experts to speak. There isn't. They're not out there.
    You can have an even split if you want one, there's more than enough on either side for that.
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  7. #17
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    So essentially certain people who don't agree with the views being expressed are questioning the integrity of the pro abortion medical witnesses who are appearing before the Committee.
    My bold
    And not so much integrity as they're all going to be biased (and they are) one way or the other, more the numbers.
    Just like the last committee on abortion here, this committee is set up to get a predetermined result and get it they will.
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  8. #18
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    You can have hearings, but you also can't pretend that there's going to be an even split of practicing medical experts to speak. There isn't. They're not out there. And if you're looking for practicing international OBGYNs who are going to say "No abortion in any cases" you're going to have the same struggle.
    That is possible but its also possible to hear medics describe abortions in clinical detail, especially late term.
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  9. #19
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    So essentially certain people who don't agree with or like the views being expressed are questioning the integrity of the medical witnesses who are appearing before the Committee.
    One person's integrity is another's bias.
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  10. #20
    ger12 ger12 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    It's weird that in a world where nearly every country has more liberal abortion laws than Ireland, where the current Irish population consistently poll heavily in favour of liberalising the abortion regime and where the council of GPs have voted in favour of liberalisation that the majority of witnesses called are in favour of it. Super weird.

    It would be really helpful if the TDs in question could identify some renowned practicing Irish OBGYNs who are pro-life who they feel have been refused a chance to speak to the committee.
    You're spinning there. The polls may be in favour of a more liberalisation, it's really only for the hard cases (FFA/rape). Outside of that and it's certainly not looking like gaining support.

    The committee are moving to deliver something much more "liberal" than that.

    As for other countries, we were the first country in the world to vote in favour of SSM, the world imo should follow our lead. Perhaps should we retain the 8th, we can show the countries you want to impress, that we are liberal in the truest sense of the word, acknowledging rights of humans before they're born.
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