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  1. #11
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Mr Grouser View Post
    If the USA says so, Yes.
    Interesting, do say more...........
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  2. #12
    blinding blinding is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by between the bridges View Post
    Moi is sure ye do, regularly...
    I couldn’t possibly comment on such sensitive information .
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  3. #13
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    There are a couple of different views about when secession can be justified.

    The two main ones are the Remedial Right Only view, which says that secession is only legitimate if necessary to protect people from the systematic violation of their fundamental rights, and freedom of association views which say that any majority large enough (or perhaps only national groups, on some versions) to protect the rights of those within the new state, should have the right to secede.
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  4. #14
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is offline
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    There's only 240k Abkhazis and yet there seems to be quite a pinch point here:

    During the Georgian–Abkhaz conflict, the Russian authorities and military supplied logistical and military aid to the separatist side.[52] Today, Russia still maintains a strong political and military influence over separatist rule in Abkhazia. Russia has also issued passports to the citizens of Abkhazia since 2000 (as Abkhazian passports cannot be used for international travel) and subsequently paid them retirement pensions and other monetary benefits. More than 80% of the Abkhazian population had received Russian passports by 2006. As Russian citizens living abroad, Abkhazians do not pay Russian taxes or serve in the Russian Army.[124][125] About 53,000 Abkhazian passports have been issued as of May 2007
    I suppose the same could happen in Ukraine?
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  5. #15
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    There are a couple of different views about when secession can be justified.

    The two main ones are the Remedial Right Only view, which says that secession is only legitimate if necessary to protect people from the systematic violation of their fundamental rights, and freedom of association views which say that any majority large enough (or perhaps only national groups, on some versions) to protect the rights of those within the new state, should have the right to secede.
    Link?
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  6. #16
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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  7. #17
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is offline
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    Thank you.

    So Free Catalonia fans what about this:

    The second chief justification for democracy is instrumental: It holds that democratic governance tends to promote important goods, including peace, freedom, and other dimensions of well-being. Once again, the force of the justification depends upon the assumption that what is being justified is a process of decision making for a polity. The claim is that the well-being of all the citizens will be best served if all the citizens are allowed to express their preferences through voting, at least on fundamental matters that affect all. Plainly, this argument cannot support the assertion that only some citizens (those in a particular portion of the polity) ought to be able unilaterally to decide a matter that will affect all citizens of the polity. Hence it cannot support the Plebiscitary Right view of the unilateral right to secede. Because neither of the justifications for democracy supports the Plebiscitary view, the latter is not entailed by the commitment to democracy.

    It has to be an All Spain vote, it seems?
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  8. #18
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratus O' Pericles View Post
    Thank you.

    So Free Catalonia fans what about this:




    It has to be an All Spain vote, it seems?
    The argument you've quoted above works (or is said to work) under the assumption that we lack "an account of the normative significance of the fact of occupancy".

    In other words - if the people of Catalonia are entitled to live in their own state, we need an account that explains why their state should correspond with the particular piece of territory they currently occupy.

    It seems to me that coming up with such an account isn't likely to be as difficult as Buchanan supposes.
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  9. #19
    Breanainn Breanainn is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratus O' Pericles View Post
    Thank you.

    So Free Catalonia fans what about this:




    It has to be an All Spain vote, it seems?
    One wouldn't expect the whole of the UK to vote in a future Scottish independence referendum, or for the people of Canada to override the views of Quebec on secession - rather to ensure that the democratic will has been fairly expressed, a turnout threshold should be enforced, and a legal Catalan referendum would certainly see 60-70% of the electorate at the polls.
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  10. #20
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    I understand there are about 30 "micronations" in Australia. The most famous is Hutt River in Western Australia. It even has its own wikipedia page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princi..._of_Hutt_River

    Australia is kind of bigger than Ireland. How many micronations can fit into the Island of Ireland? Will it bring about wars again as it was between the kingdoms before the poms invaded the second time around?
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