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  1. #2361
    Dweik Dweik is offline

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    Cdebru (Part II): I certainly dont want to "hijack the thread" but I do need to point out that in your post to "ruc_" you seem to make shortchange of the well established fact that much of so called "criticism" of Israeli is based upon supposed violations against Palestinians, children or otherwise, is in fact rooted in Anti Semitism. Of course there ARE issues deserving of valid criticism but the reality is that most of this sort of criticism is the same tired old "Da Jooz! Da Jooz!" emptyheadedness that fuels Holocaust Revisionism & Denialism. To minimise it is to risk falling into the same racist morass.

    Is Israel never wrong? Never criminal? Find a nation where there isnt such things. Israel is far less culpable then most any nation in the EU to be honest, definitely in comparison to the UK.
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  2. #2362
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dweik View Post
    Rafael Rose: I like cutting to the chase so let me ask you directly: Re your belief that the Holocaust did not occur, why do you think so many people maintain otherwise? Are you of the opinion that Jews have engineeref what you might call a "fraud?" And if so, to what end?

    I am sure you have articulated your views often in this forum but rathet than wade through blocks of text for extended periods of time. it would be great if you might help me. Before posting to a person I generally aim to understand their rationale(s).
    Uh no, unless you were saying that Jews were in total control of the Allied States at the time.

    The purpose of it was to excuse the war crimes committed by the American and British forces in the end phase of the War and also justify the permanent subjugation of Germany- which proved impossible because of the onset of the Cold War.
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  3. #2363
    Justinian Justinian is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    Uh no, unless you were saying that Jews were in total control of the Allied States at the time.

    The purpose of it was to excuse the war crimes committed by the American and British forces in the end phase of the War and also justify the permanent subjugation of Germany- which proved impossible because of the onset of the Cold War.
    This makes about as much sense as the (admittedly satirical) "Harrishoax".
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  4. #2364
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dweik View Post

    Is Israel never wrong? Never criminal? Find a nation where there isnt such things. Israel is far less culpable then most any nation in the EU to be honest, definitely in comparison to the UK.
    If the UK had heavily bombed Ardoyne or the Bogside during the Troubles with white phosphorous you might have a point- but it didn't.
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  5. #2365
    Dweik Dweik is offline

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    Ratio Ed Fides: You like many people mistakenly assume that White Phosphprpus (WP) is an Anti Personnel munition. Israel used it just as it should be used: A) Debraider, to cleanse underbrush rapidly to expose both tunnel openings and firepoints, as well as caches, B) Illuminator, to provide Illumination during nocturnal operations, and C) Obscurant, "Smoke," used to cover Ground Force movements of first and second tier formations.

    Usually laypeople (as well as hateful manipulating propagandists and of course, bigots) make your accusation regarding the last use, "Obscurance," as was the case in Cast Lead (Dec & Jan 2008/2009). Had the IDF not deployed WP it would have led to the deaths of literally thousads of more Arabs. Unlike the actual death toll these additional deaths would have been largely non combatants. Unobscured IDF formations would have taken precise fire and in neutralising the source would have pancaked all structures surrounding it. By preventing Arab aggression in this case it prevented the aforementioned Collateral Damage.

    When it was used it was preceded by blanket warnings to Arabs that they should remain indoors and close all apertures, and to remain thus until the "Smoke" dissipated entirely. These warnings were issued by several parallel means of delivery: Hijacking local media, PA systems, automated cellphone calls & SMS, and good old handbills delivered by air.

    That some Arabs ignored these manifold warnings leads a rational adult to ask why they would do so. Seeing as how the average rate of Collateral Damage in Assymetrical Operations is between 10 & 30 to 1, meaning that between 10 to 30 noncombatants lose their lives for each neutralisation of an armed combatant, and that with Cast Lead the ratio was 2.5:1, meaning that roughly 2.5 noncombatants died for every single terrorist neutralised by Israel tells us that the vast majority of Gazan non combatants remained safe & secure.

    Now, while I am not qualified to speak about any eruption of conflict between the IRA & Britain I do reckon that far less Irish were trying to murder British civilains than had been the case in the Israel: Gaza dynamic. In addition, I do not think that the IRA could ever deploy many combatants in any conventional engagement so that Britain never had a reason to even consider WP. Ergo, your "point" is entirely non sensical as well as incredibly misinformed.
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  6. #2366
    Dweik Dweik is offline

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    Radio Ed Fides Part II: Am I to understand that you are saying that the Holocaust either did npt happen, or was far overblown so as to excuse Allied actions?
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  7. #2367
    L'Chaim L'Chaim is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    Whatever about the past you cannot be a Zionist today and not consider Palestinians to be subhuman.

    What about these Zionists by the way roc_, would it be okay to say that they are being demonic as they get their kicks to watching children being brutally murdered by white phosphorous?

    How do we know that photo is what you say it is?
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  8. #2368
    L'Chaim L'Chaim is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    I support Israel Shamir's proposal for a One State Solution.

    I don't think a Two State Solution is possible anymore because of the "Settlements" issue.

    Explain how this one state solution would work, without A) taking into account what Israelis want 2) taking into account what the palestinians say they want, C) forcing Israel to annex Gaza, and D) Forcing Israel to annex all of the West Bank.
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  9. #2369
    diaspora-mick diaspora-mick is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by L'Chaim View Post
    How do we know that photo is what you say it is?
    Because the "Sderot Cinema" meme has gone viral on d'Internet ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sderot#Sderot_cinema
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  10. #2370
    kalipa kalipa is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    I support Israel Shamir's proposal for a One State Solution.

    I don't think a Two State Solution is possible anymore because of the "Settlements" issue.
    I agree particularly now that these moves are underfoot

    Israel to approve Israeli settlement in heart of Palestinian neighborhood in Jerusalem

    BETHLEHEM (Ma’an) -- Israeli authorities are set to discuss issuing building permits for 176 illegal settler housing units in the occupied East Jerusalem neighborhood of Jabal al-Mukabbir on Sunday, which would become the largest Israeli settlement built inside a Palestinian neighborhood, Israeli NGO Peace Now said in a statement on Wednesday.

    The Local Committee for Planning and Construction of the Jerusalem Municipality is expected to discuss the plans for the new housing, which would be located adjacent to the already established illegal settlement of Nof Zion.

    “It appears that the government has opened all the floodgates when it comes to settlement developments within Palestinian neighborhoods,” Peace Now said in the statement, adding that the settlement would “constitute a severe blow to Jerusalem” and the possibilities of a two-state solution.

    “This is not a matter of real estate but a matter of politics and sovereignty, as the Israelis moving to homes inside Palestinian
    neighborhoods are motivated solely by ideology, and are trying to prevent a future compromise in Jerusalem,” the group added.

    Israel to approve Israeli settlement in heart of Palestinian neighborhood in Jerusalem
    Israeli Party Approves Annexation Plan to Coerce Palestinian Departure

    With a stamp of Netanyahu approval, right-wing party conference discusses their plan to annex the Palestinian territories and offer a surrender-or-transfer ultimatum

    Yotam Berger Sep 13, 2017 3:36 AM

    The conference of the National Union faction, which has MKs in the Habayit Hayehudi Knesset party, approved a plan Tuesday for essentially annexing the territories while either facilitating the exit of Palestinian residents or allowing them to remain but without voting rights.
    The approval of the plan, dubbed by its supporters “The Decision Plan,” has been actively promoted by Habayit Hayehudi MK Bezalel Smotrich. It aims to “alter the discourse and present a true alternative to any plan based on dividing the land,” according to a National Union statement.
    “After a hundred years of managing the conflict, the time has come for a decision,” Smotrich told the assembly. “The principles [of the left] have within a few years become accepted by growing parts of the Israeli leadership. First on the left, and later, unfortunately, also on the right, which to a great extent has lost its belief in the justice of our path and has been dragged toward the two-state solution.
    “The vision of the decision plan is not new,” Smotrich said. “These are the foundations on which Zionism was erected. We do not assume that there are two narratives here that are equal. There’s one side that’s correct, and another that is undermining the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.”

    Israeli party approves annexation plan to coerce Palestinian departure - Israel News - Haaretz.com
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