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  1. #131
    realistic1 realistic1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by making waves View Post
    Not true - economic collapse does not lead to people backing left wing policies - when the economy begins a shallow recovery people begin to demand a reversal of the austerity imposed on them - when capitalism cannot provide for this reversal people move in a leftward direction. This has been evidence by increased support for the left since 2011 - whereas the left suffered electoral defeats in 2007.

    However, the reality is that parliamentary electoral politics is designed and structured to preserve the rule of the elites - socialists stand for participatory democracy - and if the parliamentary system cannot provide that then it is necessary to move outside the parliamentary system.

    To provide a quote by Malcolm X - 'by any means necessary'.
    I think it is more of a case that people can see through the flawed and failed politics of the Socialist Party. e.g. Nationalization of Private industry, no borders nonsense which has a direct result on social provision and wages for the working classes .
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  2. #132
    PO'Neill PO'Neill is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by making waves View Post
    And tell us PON - how many people got 'into debt and penalties' as a result of participating in the boycott - hell - not only did the boycott succeed in defeating water charges, it also will result in a refund for people who actually paid.
    Yet again when the anti water charges campaign stared back in 2014 no one had a clue how they'd turn out (we're still not finished I'd say as FG/FF have left the back door open to try and slide them in again) while the govt were saying that householders who refuse to pay water bills would have charges deducted from wages or social welfare etc. But when you had a go at SF for not supporting the boycott and I asked if people who you urge to boycott get into debt or have fines imposed what would the Trots do ? After refusing to answer me for several weeks you replied "they were made aware of the consequences". I then asked you several times to provide the official link or documentation that AAA (as you were called back then ) had stated this you never of course replied once. Don't give us any claptrap that the brillant Trots knew how it would exactly turn out in 2014, conceited [email protected]

    The SF strategy was flawed - from day one SF were flip-flopping on the issue - and then attacked the boycott campaign spouting the same propaganda as FG/LP. All SF campaigned on was 'vote for us and we'll sort it' - well people were not willing to wait and took decisive action themselves by boycotting the charges and bringing them down.
    Right2Water consisted of Community's, Unions and the political party’s of which SF were easily the largest, easily. Since you crowd don't hardly exist outside a few city's and the odd large town - who along with the community groups and unions got tens of thousands of people protesting from Donegal to Kerry, Sinn Fein that's who as you know well SF party policy has not flipped flopped on anything, it's policy from day one was to campaign against the water charges but not support a boycott as it could get people into debt and penalties and never changed since. Even critics of SF have acknowledged this in the discussion - but not the zealot Trot of course !! Indeed if anyone could be singled out for their input into the success of the anti water charges campaign it’s Brendan Ogle and Dave Gibney for forming and being the driving force behind Right2Water - not the micro groups of the Trots !
    Last edited by PO'Neill; 17th July 2017 at 01:38 PM.
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  3. #133
    PO'Neill PO'Neill is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by making waves View Post
    A load of bollix - produce the evidence
    Did you help people who followed your urging to not pay the their bin charges when they got into debt and fines ??

    Quote Originally Posted by making waves View Post
    Not true - economic collapse does not lead to people backing left wing policies - when the economy begins a shallow recovery people begin to demand a reversal of the austerity imposed on them - when capitalism cannot provide for this reversal people move in a leftward direction. This has been evidence by increased support for the left since 2011 - whereas the left suffered electoral defeats in 2007.

    However, the reality is that parliamentary electoral politics is designed and structured to preserve the rule of the elites - socialists stand for participatory democracy - and if the parliamentary system cannot provide that then it is necessary to move outside the parliamentary system.

    To provide a quote by Malcolm X - 'by any means necessary'.
    Big tough fighting talk from the Trots, the same people who didn't fire a shot during the 25 or so years of the Troubles. Typical, just typical
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  4. #134
    Spurius P Albus Spurius P Albus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by PO'Neill View Post
    Did you help people who followed your urging to not pay the their bin charges when they got into debt and fines ??


    Big tough fighting talk from the Trots, the same people who didn't fire a shot during the 25 or so years of the Troubles. Typical, just typical
    Weren't your lot causing enough murder and mayhem for the trots to be adding to it.

    They are more into anarchy and economic destruction.
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  5. #135
    Degeneration X Degeneration X is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by bokuden View Post
    Fg's lasting legacy will be the resurrection of Fianna Fail.
    Yes, FG greatest legacy will be they allowed FF to flourish on their incompetence!
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  6. #136
    tonic tonic is offline

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    It's a wonderful poll and right on the money, except FF would poll higher and SF lower on the day, but aside from that its only excellent and I believe the government should be changed immediately to reflect this new reality.

    Who's with me?
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  7. #137
    hollandia hollandia is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonic View Post
    It's a wonderful poll and right on the money, except FF would poll higher and SF lower on the day, but aside from that its only excellent and I believe the government should be changed immediately to reflect this new reality.

    Who's with me?
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  8. #138
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Still absolutely nothing significant happening in the polls. The only thing we can say is that a majority government of any sort is not looking likely post the next GE, so there is no incentive for either FF or FG to pull the plug.
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  9. #139
    Degeneration X Degeneration X is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonic View Post
    It's a wonderful poll and right on the money, except FF would poll higher and SF lower on the day, but aside from that its only excellent and I believe the government should be changed immediately to reflect this new reality.

    Who's with me?
    Agree that FF would poll higher, I also believe FG would poll lower look back at what the polls were saying in late 2016 and look at how short FG came up. Few polls put them as low as 25% until the exit poll came out.

    The next bye-election will be telling, the government is lucky there hasn't been one so far!
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  10. #140
    hollandia hollandia is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    Still absolutely nothing significant happening in the polls. The only thing we can say is that a majority government of any sort is not looking likely post the next GE, so there is no incentive for either FF or FG to pull the plug.
    Barring someone doing something extremely* stupid, this government is going to last until next year, and very likely run its course.

    *This obviously excludes bog standard/everyday stupidity
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