Fine Gael's Flat Tax Proposal

[DaveDublin]

Fine Gael are about to launch a flat-tax proposal.

My feeling is that it is political suicide for the following reasons:

1. Flat Taxes work in States emerging from low economic base ie post-communist, developing Hong Kong etc. They have never been tried in a more mature economy like ours.
2.They mean the rich pay less. Commontators will state that the rich generally pay the same as with non-flat tax regimes, but again this is on the basis of emerging economies where the compliance among the rich has been neglibible ie Russia.
3.It will look like another FG gimmic like compo for eircom shareholders and taxi-drivers.
4. Labour wont touch it with a stick.

I know its been discussed elsewhere - but not in an Irish economic context.

[aodh_rua]

They mustn't have informed the provinces yet. Do you mind me asking where you came across this nugget?

[mjcoughlan]

Fine Gael are about to launch a flat-tax proposal.

If they do, I'm joining up!

[rockofcashel]

suppose there starting a flat earth society too. How far removed from reality are they if they think they can sell a flat tax ?

[Rocky]

I never heard anything about this and it goes against the general economic polices FG are prescribing to now. This seems like a very right-wing idea for FG at this time. Where are you getting this from DaveDublin?

[KingKane]

I personally think that looking at reforming our welfare system so that it assists people back to work appropriately would a bigger priority.
This is the sort of thing that you should sort when you have the flexbility to do so rather than waiting for a situation when it is more difficult to do.

I'm not aware of any discussion of a flat tax proposal within FG. Not that I'm included in everything (or that much ) mind!

[JCSkinner]

No one in FG that I spoke to knows anything about this. Some wished to know if it was an attempt to smear the party as fiscal idiots.
Perhaps this is a malicious rumour originating elsewhere?

[LowIQ]

Even the US, with its extremely vocal and active right-wing zealots, has trouble getting a flat tax through.

[Pax]

Even the US, with its extremely vocal and active right-wing zealots, has trouble getting a flat tax through.

This policy is extremely right wing. It's always touted by billionares and their offhand mouthpieces particularly in the US, Forbes, the Koch brothers etc. Then again maybe Deasy has taken over FG's new policy initiatives?:wink:


For a list of books mentioning the secretive Koch's actvities see the link below
http://www.namebase.org/main3/Koch-Industries.html


http://www.opednews.com/kall_PalastInterview_.htm

They went after McCain, didn’t they? (I was thinking of the attack ads that were used when McCain was running against Bush in the southern 2000 primaries.)

No. They elected McCain. They put him in over Dennis DiConcini of Arizona who was investigating the Koch brothers who were stealing oil from the Indians off the Indian reservation-- maybe $100 million dollars (worth..) So they spent whatever money it would take to boot him, And they put in McCain in his place. But then, McCain’s gotten kind of out of line...
You talk about Bill Gates as the richest man in America, but I would bet that these Koch brothers are very close, but unlike Gates, Koch’s industries is a private company, and we don’t know how much they’re worth. But I would bet they are close to or more than Gates.
They are the guys who funded some of the big think tanks, George Mason University, Citizens for a Sound Economy, Cato Institute, all these fronts which created the huge intellectual Right.
They’re the number one funders of the right wing.
And by the way, their father founded the John Birch Society.
What’s smart about the Kochs is they work their way through fronts.
My whole purpose is to tell you the stuff that you can’t see, that requires some extra digging. While the internet is an extraordinary research tool, I find that people are dependent upon it and it’s not the question that you get bad information. But you still don’t get enough information. You still have to go digging, making those phone calls. In my case, I go under cover even.

http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleas ... 41599e.htm

[size=7]Billionaires Group Celebrates Flat Tax Candidate On Tax Day [/size]

BOSTON - April 15 - Billionaires for Steve Forbes celebrated Presidential candidate Steve Forbes’ pro-wealthy platform with a New Orleans-style jazz funeral today in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

The billionaires carried coffins labeled “Forbes Will Bury Social Security,” “Forbes Will Bury Public Education,” and “The Flat Tax Will Bury Working Americans.” At the front of their celebratory funeral procession was a banner proclaiming “Billionaires for Steve Forbes: Because Inequality Isn’t Growing Fast Enough.”

“Steve Forbes is the only candidate who understands the needs of the super-rich to eliminate taxes on investment income and to cut back costly programs that do nothing for people like us. We all send our children to private schools, and none of us need Social Security or Medicaid. Given all our campaign contributions, we billionaires deserve the best government money can buy,” said Billionaires spokeswoman Dolly Bill.

Last month, the Boston-based group received quite a bit of attention at Mr. Forbes’ presidential campaign kick-off announcement in Concord, NH. The billionaires chanted “Let workers pay the tax, so investors can relax,” and “Spare the wealthy pain, no tax on capital gain.” They held signs saying “Tax Cuts for Me, Not My Maid.”

Steve Forbes’ flat tax proposals would eliminate all taxes on investment income as well as the capital gains tax, thus drastically lowering effective tax rates for millionaires and billionaires. On his own personal tax return, Mr. Forbes would save $174,000 per year if the 1996 version of his flat tax proposal were implemented, according to a 1995 analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice, while a single person making $25,000 a year would pay over $2,000 per year more.

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=383&row=1

If the Economy Plan reads like a Christmas wishlist drafted by U.S. corporate lobbyists, that's because it was.

From slashing taxes to wiping away Iraq's tariffs (taxes on imports of U.S. and other foreign goods), the package carries the unmistakable fingerprints of the small, soft hands of Grover Norquist.

Norquist is the capo di capi of the lobbyist army of the right. In Washington every Wednesday, he hosts a pow-wow of big business political operatives and right-wing muscle groups—including the Christian Coalition and National Rifle Association—where Norquist quarterbacks their media and legislative offensive for the week.

Once registered as a lobbyist for Microsoft and American Express, Norquist today directs Americans for Tax Reform, a kind of trade union for billionaires unnamed, pushing a regressive "flat tax" scheme.

And for more on the cuddly koch brothers see Consortium News, Greg Palast and Buzzflash.


And if you think a flat tax was good for Russia you really need to re-read your Globalization and its Discontents by Joseph Stiglitz,

The Ruin of Russia
By Joseph Stiglitz
Guardian
April 9, 2003
No rewriting of history can change the fact that neo-liberal reform produced undiluted economic decline. ......

http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/bwi ... 09ruin.htm

[geraghd]

Ok well the only forum this has been discussed in FG that I know of is at a YFG level, at that was at the recent Dublin day. But even at that the policy didnt go down favourably with those present and I sincerely doupt that there is much support for the proposal at FG nationally or indeed at parliamentary party level. Not that is necessarly a bad policy or anything but there isnt the will to implement or propose such a policy in the party. I fear someone mixed up some FG people support for it and some YFG policy as a broad FG policy in their zeal to attempt to discredit FG somehow.