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  1. #651
    Pabilito Pabilito is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    1. The issue about the timing of the transmissions and the long distance/timing from Blacksod ....they may have made that transmission well in advance of their estimated arrival at Blacksod due to anticipated loss of VHF contact with Shannon as the descended to low level.

    2. They may have been using Blackrock as a clear radar landmark descending through cloud to establish visual contact with terrain before proceeding on at low level visually to Blacksod. This may have been part of an approach procedure for Blacksod. If that was the intention then the reason why it went so terribly wrong is still very unclear.

    Another general point about the use of a helicopter versus a fixed wing aircraft for this role is that the shorter endurance rotary aircraft would have been unable to provide VHF relay comms for the rescuing aircraft(118) whilst it was at low level and on the ground refueling(approx 20-30 minutes as a rough guess) whereas a fixed wing aircraft without the need of refueling would have been able to provide continuous communication support to the rescuing helicopter.
    1 & 2. If they were planning a long slow descent to Blacksod via a diversion out 25km to Blackrock then surely they should have explained that to ATC and got clearance? .. Iím not an expert but surely you canít just go flying around willy nilly like that especially at night in cloud?

    Listening to the ATC recordings is mind numbingly boring as the half hour clip has only about 1 minute of activity at that time of the morning so itís not like they didnít have time on to explain their intentions to ATC.

    Fully agree that helicopter is unsuited to this type of operation, in fact from listening to the recordings a significant factor in all of this could be that the pilots seemed to be distracted due to not being able to establish ď2 wayĒ comms with Rescue 118. A fixed wing aircraft would have a far better antenna system and probably a shortwave radio for long distance comms.
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  2. #652
    damus damus is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Field Marshal View Post
    A deployment of two large helicopters to evacuate somebody 155 miles out to sea is only ever justified on the basis of a life threatening medical emergency.

    [next you will justify a guy with a bad toothache 155 miles out being airlifted off ]



    But it is an established fact .
    Indeed this evening it has been confirmed that the tail of the copter struck the rock.



    Tell you what pull your head out of the sand and learn to face real facts and also to read threads properly before making ignorant comments again.

    What conditions constitutes a medical emergency warranting a medvac evacuation in your view....just so that we're clear? A doctor made the judgement call that the patient needed to be evacuated....or are you calling in to question the competencies of the doctor? Btw, the patients injuries were such that he required surgery. It is not an established fact that the copter struck the rock. They haven't even recovered the flight data recorders let alone the fuselage. Something also tells me that you wouldn't have the balls to say any of this rubbish that you've been spouting here to the families of the stricken crewmen....too much of a coward for that....and that's a fact.
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  3. #653
    cabledude cabledude is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    I would expect that the helicopter in those conditions and at that level was flying far slower than that....maybe something like 30-40knots ?
    Absolutely. But to entertain the field mouses narrative, the pilot was recklessly joyriding a helicopter at low altitude. Flying slowly would not fit his narrative.

    On a serious note however, 40 knots is still what, 70/80 kmph. Helicopters do not have crumple zones, airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners etc. Hitting a solid structure at 70 kmph in a machine not designed for hitting solid structures at 70 kmph is a problem.
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  4. #654
    danger here danger here is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    I would expect that the helicopter in those conditions and at that level was flying far slower than that....maybe something like 30-40knots if they were on intermediate approach to Blacksod or far slower again if they thought they were at Blacksod.
    Last recorded speed was 90kts just before Blackrock
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  5. #655
    danger here danger here is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabilito View Post
    1 & 2. If they were planning a long slow descent to Blacksod via a diversion out 25km to Blackrock then surely they should have explained that to ATC and got clearance? .. I’m not an expert but surely you can’t just go flying around willy nilly like that especially at night in cloud?

    Listening to the ATC recordings is mind numbingly boring as the half hour clip has only about 1 minute of activity at that time of the morning so it’s not like they didn’t have time on to explain their intentions to ATC.

    Fully agree that helicopter is unsuited to this type of operation, in fact from listening to the recordings a significant factor in all of this could be that the pilots seemed to be distracted due to not being able to establish “2 way” comms with Rescue 118. A fixed wing aircraft would have a far better antenna system and probably a shortwave radio for long distance comms.

    There is some mention over on Pprune that the Dublin helicopter came via a UK contract unlike the other ones and therefore may have had a different mapping configuation to the rest. Make from that what you will.
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  6. #656
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabilito View Post
    1 & 2. If they were planning a long slow descent to Blacksod via a diversion out 25km to Blackrock then surely they should have explained that to ATC and got clearance? .. I’m not an expert but surely you can’t just go flying around willy nilly like that especially at night in cloud?

    Listening to the ATC recordings is mind numbingly boring as the half hour clip has only about 1 minute of activity at that time of the morning so it’s not like they didn’t have time on to explain their intentions to ATC.

    Fully agree that helicopter is unsuited to this type of operation, in fact from listening to the recordings a significant factor in all of this could be that the pilots seemed to be distracted due to not being able to establish “2 way” comms with Rescue 118. A fixed wing aircraft would have a far better antenna system and probably a shortwave radio for long distance comms.

    I think they could fly wherever they liked in that area....I expect that at the level in that area it's uncontrolled airspace. ATC might provide traffic information but aircraft are free to fly at whatever level in whatever direction they like.
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  7. #657
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabledude View Post
    Absolutely. But to entertain the field mouses narrative, the pilot was recklessly joyriding a helicopter at low altitude. Flying slowly would not fit his narrative.

    On a serious note however, 40 knots is still what, 70/80 kmph. Helicopters do not have crumple zones, airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners etc. Hitting a solid structure at 70 kmph in a machine not designed for hitting solid structures at 70 kmph is a problem.
    40 knots is approx 50 mph.
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  8. #658
    Half Nelson Half Nelson is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by danger here View Post
    There is some mention over on Pprune that the Dublin helicopter came via a UK contract unlike the other ones and therefore may have had a different mapping configuation to the rest. Make from that what you will.
    Interesting.
    Blackrock...Blacksod. I hope not.
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  9. #659
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by danger here View Post
    Last recorded speed was 90kts just before Blackrock
    I think the source of that is Flightracker? I don't think it's reliable at lower speeds and low altitude.
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  10. #660
    Pabilito Pabilito is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    40 knots is approx 50 mph.
    Which is 80kph as he said
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