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  1. #5101
    buttercookie buttercookie is offline

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    Thats why the actual time she was taken from the water is important, the media may not have had facts.

    She was probably declared dead not long after she was put in the lifeboat so that should be an indication of the timeline.
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  2. #5102
    Orbit v2 Orbit v2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabilito View Post
    Makes you wonder what they were doing flying unnessarily low at 200ft when they were 10 miles out from destination Blacksod..
    Maybe because they were unfamiliar with the area they decided to do the visual approach, in what they thought was the most conservative way possible, ie the whole route below cloud level. When you are imagining what they were thinking, you have to bear in mind they didn't seem to be aware of the height of Blackrock island.
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  3. #5103
    buttercookie buttercookie is offline

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    The height was marked on the map though,ie 280.Why would you choose to fly below any figure on a map.If you didnt know what the figure on the map meant someone had drawn up an accompanying sheet to show you obstacles to prevent you flying into this very large obstacle.

    In this scenario how could any pilot think dropping to 200 ft was without danger.

    We will have to wait for the final report to find out.
    Last edited by buttercookie; 21st April 2017 at 11:09 AM.
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  4. #5104
    Eoin Coir Eoin Coir is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by vladimir View Post
    The winchman almost saved the day. Sadly he was not properly heeded.
    almost,sadly a few feet more and they were clear. This is what makes it even harder to take.
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  5. #5105
    buttercookie buttercookie is offline

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    It would have been comforting for the families too to think they never knew what happened and that death was instant.

    Very hard to listen to the tape transcripts.
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  6. #5106
    Volatire Volatire is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Des Quirell View Post
    As part of my MBA it was an element of two modules in terms of its applicability to management practices. When everyone is aware of the mutually shared benefits it becomes easy in practice. Sometimes managed and respectful disagreement within a team leads to the best outcomes. I know that ESB implemented a form of it at senior level once. It's easier than you imagine to create that environment. Remember that the repitition for confirmation shares responsibility to an extent for the outcome.
    I knew MBAs were kinda bullshítty, but that takes the biscuit.
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  7. #5107
    Pabilito Pabilito is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbit v2 View Post
    Maybe because they were unfamiliar with the area they decided to do the visual approach, in what they thought was the most conservative way possible, ie the whole route below cloud level. When you are imagining what they were thinking, you have to bear in mind they didn't seem to be aware of the height of Blackrock island.
    Personally I wouldn’t consider travelling at 100mph to be ‘the most conservative way possible’. They were travelling too fast IMO.

    They were obviously unaware of the height of Blackrock but that was a failure on their part to read their route APBSS.

    Low level flight is the most vulnerable in terms of potential obstacles so surely the most conservative thing would be to minimise the length of the low level leg while travelling at slow speed.

    Would it not have made more sense to have descended to say 800ft above BKSDA and then come down vertically to 200ft and once under the cloudbase hover until you get a clear matching picture of your surroundings on radar and infrared before proceeding?
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  8. #5108
    Pabilito Pabilito is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercookie View Post
    The height was marked on the map though,ie 280.Why would you choose to fly below any figure on a map.If you didnt know what the figure on the map meant someone had drawn up an accompanying sheet to show you obstacles to prevent you flying into this very large obstacle.

    In this scenario how could any pilot think dropping to 200 ft was without danger.

    We will have to wait for the final report to find out.
    It wasn't dropping to 200ft that was the problem, it was the subsequent travelling at 100mph at that level that was reckless IMO.

    Even at 50mph thay would have given themselves twice the amount of time to react to the Winchman's instructions.
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  9. #5109
    buttercookie buttercookie is offline

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    Dropping to 200 ft was a huge problem though when something much higher was in your way.

    The helicopter was going to come off the worst in any collision with that rock no matter how much speed it was travelling at.Its true the pilot may have had more time to take evasive action if travelling at half that speed but thats only assuming she was given the same warning within the same time frame.
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  10. #5110
    Orbit v2 Orbit v2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabilito View Post
    Personally I wouldn’t consider travelling at 100mph to be ‘the most conservative way possible’. They were travelling too fast IMO.
    Again you're looking at it with perfect hindsight. If they were only doing 50mph, they would probably have recovered, but that doesn't really assist in understanding what they were thinking, and what are the most important lessons to learn. 100mph is half the maximum speed of an S92. SAR craft can't exactly afford to dawdle along not sure where they are going.
    Last edited by Orbit v2; 21st April 2017 at 02:18 PM.
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