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  1. #10761
    talkingshop talkingshop is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    Problem there is very few people in a situation where they want to terminate for whatever reason are ever going to be concerned about what the Oireachtas thinks on the matter.

    It is a false debate. Abortion on demand already exist. It is just that the Irish state, not at all unusually, doesn't know what to do about it. So it carries on debating a matter that in 99% cases isn't even taking any notice of it.
    That's grand so, we have abortion on demand already, no need for any further action?
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  2. #10762
    Ellen Ripley Ellen Ripley is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by talkingshop View Post
    Just to be clear, I haven't said that we absolutely are morally required to attribute moral value to a being that doesn't yet have consciousness and sentience, but his argument - that rationality and consistency require us to dismiss the potentiality, the "becoming" aspect is patently absurd.
    I got the distinction.

    I'm aware that you were forensically dissecting the substance of his posts-- as a disinterested observer-- not becoming a pro-lifer.
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  3. #10763
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by talkingshop View Post
    That's grand so, we have abortion on demand already, no need for any further action?
    Unfortunately the law has to be clarified around those who may not be mobile enough to make it to the ferryport or airport. That's pretty much the only relevance left.
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  4. #10764
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is online now

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    This assumed 'potential' thing is on a philosophical level fairly irritating as well. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that any foetus is full of potential. It could just as easily grow up to be a pramfaced eejit as it could be to be a brain surgeon.

    In fact on balance looking back over the decades as the global population has risen there appears to be fewer geniuses around and a lot more oxygen thieves.

    So this whole 'potential' thing is mathematically unlikely for a start.
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  5. #10765
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is online now

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    maybe the answer is to sterilise everyone with an IQ lower than the industrial average. That way we could deal with the whole abortion thing and overpopulation as well.

    There's much more 'potential' in that hypothesis than there is in the notion that every pramface capable of being knocked up is about to present the state with a little Einstein.
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  6. #10766
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    Eagle (I know your sweet nature, and how troubled you must be about a fellow poster's half state. We are all feeling the same ... @ politics.ie ... one of our own ... in solidarity)

    My Analysis

    I've neglected my duty as Calc's healer (medium), especially on the abortion issue (SUBSTANTIVE ISSUE OF THIS THREAD). Calc's been talking in tongues, and what he has expressed is open to all sorts of crazy interpretations.

    Calc, poor lad, thinks he is a prophet and believes the handwriting appeared on the wall … … magically.*

    *He thinks he is a reincarnation of Prophet Daniel who predicted the diaspora.

    Did you see what HIMSELF (Calc) wrote on the wall? -


    "Mene mene tekel upharsin"


    Eagle, because Calc has not accepted that he is dead, I'm handling him with kid gloves. He's in a hell of his own making right now, and he is having a total break…

    Calc believes there is an anti-Christ running around causing trouble over abortion. He believes that anti-Christ is me (his compassionate healer, who only wants to help him to walk into the Light !!!).

    The timespan Calc / Daniel gave is:



    "Mene mene tekel upharsin"
    Time, times, and half a time (equals 3 and a half years), but I have rationally told Calc that this is subject to interpretation.



    I further said to Calc (Daniel) that Ireland's 8th Amendment (Article 40.3.3) will have been repealed long before (if it's 3 and a half years). Calc can only reiterate that anti-Christ (Me: Starry) will want to appeal any subsequent legal time span 12 / 14 / 16 weeks to allow pregnant women and girls to plan and figure out. It doesn't matter what honest reply anyone gives him, Calc (Daniel) reverts back to his stock phrase: "Answer my question."

    As I explained above, I attempted to rationally dissect what Calc is talking about in this great tribulation he foresees. But despite my rational explanations, he refutes that the writing on the wall might not mean what HIMSELF is gibbering about. Alas, broken record, Calc can only tediously shout at me: "Answer my question."

    My analytical conclusion is: Calc's half state remains unchanged. His spirit might be destined to wander the earthly plane in perpetuity.

    Does this add anything to our Abortion debate? I think it has more relevance than "A" poster saying there is an analogy that simply is not there. Try and tell "A" poster that there has to be a similarity or parallel !!!! What do we keep hearing back? You guessed it right - "A's" Answer is: A broken record.
    Last edited by StarryPlough01; 18th February 2017 at 03:45 AM.
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  7. #10767
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen Ripley View Post
    I got the distinction.

    I'm aware that you were forensically dissecting the substance of his posts-- as a disinterested observer-- not becoming a pro-lifer.
    Sweet Ellen,

    I don't want to appear patronising (although I am...), but I analysed TS's last post as a softening... My lips are now sealed.

    You think TS is Anti-Choice?
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  8. #10768
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by petaljam View Post
    Even if you were correct in that, the point remains that his argument certainly holds true with respect to removing any human rights from the pregnant woman based on mere potentiality.

    Whether it breaks down when applied as an absolute is a separate issue, and not one I'm interested in getting into here, as it's irrelevant to my opinion on the subject of this thread, namely abortion.

    And I suspect that your interpretation of things is fairly representative of what has led to the current legal situation (mess, really) in Ireland, i.e. despite the hypothetical equality of status between woman and foetus, the reality that has evolved is that in practice whenever there's a legal conflict, the courts always end up granting even relatively minor rights to the woman. Minor as compared to a right to life, that is. The right to travel being one such, but also the right to be buried without serving as an incubator, or the right not to be physically restrained in order to exercise the foetus' "right to life".

    If anyone really believed the foetus had rights that could be exercised over the woman, none of these would matter. It's all a big pretence, really, and the official line has only held because the UK has provided an outlet for pressure that prevented any public outcry from building up.
    I saw Nozz's philosophical question as a thought provoking one. I would try to save both twins from a burning building. If it was a swimming scenario, I would choose the intellectually challenged twin to hold around their chin, and hope the other twin could make it under his/her own steam to safety. I feel such arguments get stupid very quickly. We needed philosopher Merc to be here to guide us.
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  9. #10769
    Truth.ie Truth.ie is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    maybe the answer is to sterilise everyone with an IQ lower than the industrial average. That way we could deal with the whole abortion thing and overpopulation as well.

    There's much more 'potential' in that hypothesis than there is in the notion that every pramface capable of being knocked up is about to present the state with a little Einstein.
    What overpopulation?
    We're forever told that Europe and the Western world is underpopulated and we need immigrants to look after us when we're old.
    How about we sterilise everyone who wants to kill their babies.
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  10. #10770
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth.ie View Post
    What overpopulation?
    We're forever told that Europe and the Western world is underpopulated and we need immigrants to look after us when we're old.
    How about we sterilise everyone who wants to kill their babies.
    My idea was to wind-dry them and shape them sort of like hams and use them as clay pigeons at th' 2028 Olympic games to be held in Tullybarna.

    I bet the nuns of the institutions are annoyed they didn't think of it first. You know what they are like over a shilling.
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