Originally Posted by hollandia

A lot of this could have been avoided by setting the tariff at the current level of 178 pa at the beginning. Muppets.

And how long would this tariff remain in effect?

That's another issue, but I'm just highlighting the cackhanded manner in which this whole debacle has been handled.

Originally Posted by hollandia

A lot of this could have been avoided by setting the tariff at the current level of 178 pa at the beginning. Muppets.

Maybe, but it's not just about the cost, its about the quango, the pps, the privatisation, the smart metering and so on. That's what the politicos just don't get, they have this fixed belief that it's 'the economy stoopid' and it all boils down to money. They have forgotten that we are a society and not just an economy, that there are human values as well as fiscal ones.

Originally Posted by TheSmallFella

And how long would this tariff remain in effect?

Good point . I mentioned a while back that if this government truly wants to believe that it's not about making money for Irish Water that they should insist on this cap being introduced for 20 years to accommodate the average mortgage holder. After all we are not in the Sudan but then again its not about conservation with IW more about use all you can, if you have a leak yippee , we make make make.

Originally Posted by kittykat

Tánaiste
Tánaiste’s car blocked by water charge protesters in Tallaght
So this is now OK?
The last time I checked this type of behaviour was illegal and unacceptable or have I missed something?

It's about as illegal as throwing protesters around the place and being aggresive and violent towards them.

I condemn all violence, always have, but its bemusing to see people being quite happy with Garda violence getting so animated about this.

Ms Burton was never in any danger and the people in Tallaght are not generally representative of the vast majority who are sick of tired of the government. Wasn't pleasant to watch and I am sure it wasn't pleasant for Ms Burton but this is most likely the worse we will see in terms of protesting.

I'd prefer if people stick with the mass people power demos that have been so effective so far.

100,000 quietly angry people carry far more weight than a few hundred getting too aggressive.

Originally Posted by The OD

It's about as illegal as throwing protesters around the place and being aggresive and violent towards them.

I condemn all violence, always have, but its bemusing to see people being quite happy with Garda violence getting so animated about this.

Ms Burton was never in any danger and the people in Tallaght are not generally representative of the vast majority who are sick of tired of the government. Wasn't pleasant to watch and I am sure it wasn't pleasant for Ms Burton but this is most likely the worse we will see in terms of protesting.

I'd prefer if people stick with the mass people power demos that have been so effective so far.

100,000 quietly angry people carry far more weight than a few hundred getting too aggressive.

You seem to be implying that a police force cannot use force. They can.

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Originally Posted by ballot stuffer

Perhaps try jumping in front of Barack Obama's car or Francois Hollande's and report back.

I would expect similar or worse outcomes. Especially if their #2 was held to ransom the previous day.



Well thanks to Murphy's tactics the previous day, we can expect more robust policing in the future. It's sad it has to come to that but were are now just like our European neighbours.

This whole situation was created by the political class through incessant racking up of the pressure on people. Whatabouterry re Obama or anyone else doesn't cut it I am afraid.

If things escalate then the blame goes squarely at government.

Originally Posted by Gaston

This whole situation was created by the political class through incessant racking up of the pressure on people. Whatabouterry re Obama or anyone else doesn't cut it I am afraid.

If things escalate then the blame goes squarely at government.

I agree that the government have totally screwed up.

I don't agree with the tactics promoted by the likes of Murphy. More change was gained from the massive water protests than lowest common denominator tactics from Murphy. If anything he has done harm to the water charges cause.

Originally Posted by Mad as Fish

Maybe, but it's not just about the cost, its about the quango, the pps, the privatisation, the smart metering and so on. That's what the politicos just don't get, they have this fixed belief that it's 'the economy stoopid' and it all boils down to money. They have forgotten that we are a society and not just an economy, that there are human values as well as fiscal ones.

See the above post. Your points are valid, just saying the govt could have saved themselves a lot of bother by saying 178 euro in the first instance.

Originally Posted by hollandia

See the above post. Your points are valid, just saying the govt could have saved themselves a lot of bother by saying 178 euro in the first instance.

They had no intention of a cap of €178 in the beginning though. That is only a panic reaction to the pressure they are now feeling.