No confidence motion: Questionable ethics

[riven]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1127/politics.html?rss

'Backbenchers have been warned of the consequences of failing to support the Minister for Health in a vote of confidence tomorrow evening.'

Surely this sort of behaviour should be condemned but I do not hear anything. By issuing warnings, it curtails the ability for the politicians in question to make an ethical decision on their own premise. Any government that condones such actions (opposition or power) is defying democracy.

[Aindriu]

Surely party members would be expected to support the status quo? In Harney's case there is only her and one other PD so she needs FF support.

[riven]

Status quo? You are joking right. What are they elected for, to pull the party line or do what is best for the country.

[constitutionus]

welcome to democracy in ireland. the whips are in full force on this issue and newstalk was reporting on the breakfast show this morning that any FF TD that votes against harney will be expelled from the party. so basically its put up or shut up time for the government.

theres been some question about political point scoring on the part of labour in calling this vote of no confidence but personally im delighted. im sick to the back teeth of government ministers and back benchers decrying the state of the health service and then basically saying "what can i do about it , im just in power".

well heres your chance. either vote against harney or shut the ************************ up and concede that your in favour of the privitisation of the health service and the inevitable detrimental effect that will have on the pubic service that will need to happen in order to make it viable. all to suit your political ends

after today any government TD that comes out with opposition style views should have the record of this vote thrown in their face. hopefully it'll put an end to this hypocritical crap.

[meriwether]

Status quo? You are joking right. What are they elected for, to pull the party line or do what is best for the country.

They are elected to pull the party line. Its fair to assume they join the party they feel will do whats best for the country, hence they must follow the party line.

[Aindriu]

Status quo? You are joking right. What are they elected for, to pull the party line or do what is best for the country.

They are elected to pull the party line. Its fair to assume they join the party they feel will do whats best for the country, hence they must follow the party line.

And in that regard our deputies are no different to the party members in any other western european country. And they call it 'democracy'

[riven]

The party is simply a grouping of like minded individuals. While that will have some sway on the way one acts, it should not interfer directly like above with your own policy (which if you are an ethical politican is in the best interests...)

[constitutionus]

Status quo? You are joking right. What are they elected for, to pull the party line or do what is best for the country.

They are elected to pull the party line. Its fair to assume they join the party they feel will do whats best for the country, hence they must follow the party line.

yup. meri's right. this is why i dont support any one political party and try to vote independant when i can. we all know good people from ALL parties but the fact is no matter how much you like your local party rep if he's told by his leader to sell you down the river he will sell you down the river. thats party politics.

[EvotingMachine0197]

Riven, I agree with that.

The same thing crossed my mind this morning when I heard Ned O'Keefe being referred to as 'Rebel FF TD Ned O'Keefe'

What's so rebel about trying to follow your constituents mandate. Surely taking the whip on votes such as these is a rebellion against the people who gave their vote ?

Voting on party lines may be constitutional, and it may be democratic on paper, but I think it is (or can be) highly unrepresentative of voters wishes.
Voters seem to get disenfranchised once the election count is over. And that sucks IMHO.

I think recent attempts to cast NOK as a nutbag are disingenouos and missing the point. I say fair play for attempting to be true to his mandate.

Also, fair play to John McGuinness for his position on public sector reform.

[qtman]

Status quo? You are joking right. What are they elected for, to pull the party line or do what is best for the country.

You have to make some presumption that people who vote for a candidate are voting for that party's policies, so aligned Oireachtas members have a duty to acknowledge the Whip.

This isn't an absolute responsibility (i.e. the Constitution makes no reference to political parties) and members should examine their conscience for every vote, but if a party member is consistently voting against his or her party, they have a duty to stand down as a member and seek re-election as an Independent.

The Whip system is over-used in the Dail, but that has as much to do with our electoral system and our constitution as it has to do with the calibre of the members of the Oireachtas.