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  1. #11
    Andrew49 Andrew49 is offline
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    Geneology Tuam Home, Tuam, County Galway


    The accepted practice was that unmarried mothers in the Tuam home ‘agreed’ to provide a year of unpaid domestic service to the nuns, and that in addition to this servitude, the home received State support, via Galway County Council, to the tune of £1 per child or mother per week. LINK
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  2. #12
    GrainneDee GrainneDee is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausmaus Von Schnellkat View Post
    Yes, journal.ie and Irish Daily Mail are the only outlets besides Irish Central in the states I notice to cover this.

    Nothing in the Indo or Times as far as I know or coming up on link-searches. 800 bodies- I believe a Garda investigation has been launched into why there are no death certifications for these bodies.

    Bit of a pattern. I know of similar mass graves around other religious institution grounds abroad as well- 1,000 I think in one in North America if memory serves.

    I'm sure given the usual Irish systemic bureaucratic abuse we'll be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing emerging when the state notes that any of the members of the relevant orders are safely dead and beyond questioning.

    Much of which will be down to the plants the RCC has in place in the Irish state apparatus.
    Most of Liveline was taken up with it today
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  3. #13
    GrainneDee GrainneDee is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    Geneology Tuam Home, Tuam, County Galway


    The accepted practice was that unmarried mothers in the Tuam home ‘agreed’ to provide a year of unpaid domestic service to the nuns, and that in addition to this servitude, the home received State support, via Galway County Council, to the tune of £1 per child or mother per week. LINK
    And then the babies were sold to Americans. Think of all the money those nuns raked in. What did they do with it all?
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  4. #14
    Andrew49 Andrew49 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDee View Post
    And then the babies were sold to Americans. Think of all the money those nuns raked in. What did they do with it all?
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  5. #15
    Old Mr Grouser Old Mr Grouser is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausmaus Von Schnellkat View Post
    Should really be a separate thread ... It'll be interesting to see whether there is any official willingness to have those skeletons examined forensically as well ...
    Yes, you've made two important points there, Raus.

    I'd spotted this story a few days ago, and i'd posted on one of the Mass Graves threads _ The Mass Graves of Ireland

    I'm becoming a bit sceptical; have a listen to this discussion that there was on Liveline yesterday - go to Liveline Wednesday 28 May 2014 - Liveline - RTÉ Radio 1 and click on 'communal grave in Tuam'.

    There are a few things about this story that worry me.

    For one thing the place seems to be a bit of a Knock Shrine.

    It's now identified as the place where for forty or fifty years there were nuns throwing corpses, up to eight hundred or so, into their sewage tank - and with no-one (not even the fellows that from time to time had to clean the tank) saying anything about it.

    But it is only recently that the site has been associated with the 'Eight Hundred Babies in the Sewage Tank' - it was previously revered locally as a Famine Grave, with a Marian Image erected.

    And the same site is also associated with 'the Tuam Martyrs' - with a bit of wall, still standing, that two of them are supposed to have been shot against.


    The local cemeteries have no records of these eight hundred or so children being buried' but the great majority of these deaths would have been of babies or toddlers, but then a common practice of the time was to place such corpses in the coffins of dead adults.

    Please, have a listen to that Liveline item.
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  6. #16
    Cato Cato is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Mr Grouser View Post
    Yes, you've made two important points there, Raus.

    I'd spotted this story a few days ago, and i'd posted on one of the Mass Graves threads _ The Mass Graves of Ireland

    I'm becoming a bit sceptical; have a listen to this discussion that there was on Liveline yesterday - go to Liveline Wednesday 28 May 2014 - Liveline - RTÉ Radio 1 and click on 'communal grave in Tuam'.

    There are a few things about this story that worry me.

    For one thing the place seems to be a bit of a Knock Shrine.

    It's now identified as the place where for forty or fifty years there were nuns throwing corpses, up to eight hundred or so, into their sewage tank - and with no-one (not even the fellows that from time to time had to clean the tank) saying anything about it.

    But it is only recently that the site has been associated with the 'Eight Hundred Babies in the Sewage Tank' - it was previously revered locally as a Famine Grave, with a Marian Image erected.

    And the same site is also associated with 'the Tuam Martyrs' - with a bit of wall, still standing, that two of them are supposed to have been shot against.


    The local cemeteries have no records of these eight hundred or so children being buried' but the great majority of these deaths would have been of babies or toddlers, but then a common practice of the time was to place such corpses in the coffins of dead adults.

    Please, have a listen to that Liveline item.
    The site has long been known of in Tuam as has its relation to the 'Mother and Child Home' run by the nuns. A couple hve been tending to the site for some time now - mowing the grass and keeping it neat etc. They were the ones who placed the memorial stone and Marian shrine there. It was popularly believed that the site or somewhere near it had served as a famine grave and may well have - the 'Home' was located in the old Workhouse.

    I recently talked to a business owner in Tuam who can remember children in the area back in the 70s running around with skulls on sticks having uncovered some of the bodies.

    I spoke to an older gentleman today who can remember the children being walked through the town back in the 50s dressed in their brown uniforms.

    This country was a seriously nasty place.
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  7. #17
    Old Mr Grouser Old Mr Grouser is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rausmaus Von Schnellkat View Post
    ... It'll be interesting to see whether there is any official willingness to have those skeletons examined forensically ...
    Yes, absolutely.

    Only in Ireland would any report of such practices, purportedly well within living memory, not attract the urgent attention of law enforcement agencies.

    The Garda must investigate - whatever the cause of the deaths there are, it is said, up to eight hundred bodies packed in there; improperly interred, denied a decent funeral.

    NUI Galway has an archaeology department, and they are only down the road. They could assist the Gardai concerned, and conduct a preliminary dig to see if there is any truth in the allegations.

    If there is then then the bodies will have to be carefully exhumed - by forensic archaeologists, perhaps assisted by members of the Defence Forces whose UN service has involved the investigation of Mass Graves.
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  8. #18
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Mr Grouser View Post
    Yes, you've made two important points there, Raus.

    I'd spotted this story a few days ago, and i'd posted on one of the Mass Graves threads _ The Mass Graves of Ireland

    I'm becoming a bit sceptical; have a listen to this discussion that there was on Liveline yesterday - go to Liveline Wednesday 28 May 2014 - Liveline - RTÉ Radio 1 and click on 'communal grave in Tuam'.

    There are a few things about this story that worry me.

    For one thing the place seems to be a bit of a Knock Shrine.

    It's now identified as the place where for forty or fifty years there were nuns throwing corpses, up to eight hundred or so, into their sewage tank - and with no-one (not even the fellows that from time to time had to clean the tank) saying anything about it.

    But it is only recently that the site has been associated with the 'Eight Hundred Babies in the Sewage Tank' - it was previously revered locally as a Famine Grave, with a Marian Image erected.

    And the same site is also associated with 'the Tuam Martyrs' - with a bit of wall, still standing, that two of them are supposed to have been shot against.


    The local cemeteries have no records of these eight hundred or so children being buried' but the great majority of these deaths would have been of babies or toddlers, but then a common practice of the time was to place such corpses in the coffins of dead adults.

    Please, have a listen to that Liveline item.
    Another from Irish Central: Memorial bid to mark mass grave of 800 babies in Galway - IrishCentral.com


    While the high mortality rate is frightening and reflective of the attitudes of both the Church - and the wider population - towards the stigmatised and vulnerable children, the treatment of the dead also raises questions about the Church attitude towards Christian burial. These children would have been baptised and yet they were treated with the same contempt as was shown to unbaptised babies such as those who were stillborn. Slung in a hole in unconsecrated ground.
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  9. #19
    linny55 linny55 is offline
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    There was a priest on Liveline who was upset at the way they were buried not the way they and their mothers were forced to live.
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  10. #20
    Old Mr Grouser Old Mr Grouser is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    ... It was popularly believed that the site or somewhere near it had served as a famine grave and may well have

    ... I recently talked to a business owner in Tuam who can remember children in the area back in the 70s running around with skulls on sticks having uncovered some of the bodies.

    .... This country was a seriously nasty place.
    That's one of the reasons why Gardai and the archaeologists are needed.

    Are the bodies from the Famine or the Workhouse - or are they the Children's Home, which places them within living memory and concerning people still alive?

    But whatever, if there are bodies then they must be exhumed and given a decent reburial.

    If the forensic pathologists say that they're children who died 'within living memory' then the State will have to take reasonable efforts to identify them and to contact relatives before the re-burial - DNA testing, as happens with recently exhumed bodies of soldiers killed in VietNam or the two World Wars.
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