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  1. #21
    Ramps Ramps is offline

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    Successful detectives the world over owe their progress thru' the ranks to their hunches' being proved correct; that's why, when it comes to sticking to their theories regarding culpability, many are like a dog with a bone.
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  2. #22
    NewGoldDream NewGoldDream is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrygold View Post
    You really can't equate the two NGD. The treatment of her was disgraceful.

    Unfortunately because this was such a backward country it is quite easy to understand why she acted in the way she did.
    Oh absolutely agree that the Garda behaviour was appalling.

    I just am uncomfortable with the idea that the Hayes should be absolved of all blame. They made, at best, wrong decisions, and there should be some criticism for that, even if tempered by the acknowledgement that society was less permissive. But their wrongdoing cannot be equated with that of the Gardai.

    The completely blameless souls were the two babies who are almost forgotten about.
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  3. #23
    Ryan Tubbs Ryan Tubbs is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewGoldDream View Post
    The completely blameless souls were the two babies who are almost forgotten about.
    The funny thing is that whether you look at "backwards" 1984, or our supposedly "enlightened" Ireland of 2014, no one in the chattering classes gives a flying f*ck about dead babies.
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  4. #24
    Kerrygold Kerrygold is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Tubbs View Post
    The funny thing is that whether you look at "backwards" 1984, or our supposedly "enlightened" Ireland of 2014, no one in the chattering classes gives a flying f*ck about dead babies.
    Em, the babies are dead. There's not a lot people can do for them now.

    A bizzare comment.
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  5. #25
    Ryan Tubbs Ryan Tubbs is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrygold View Post
    Em, the babies are dead. There's not a lot people can do for them now.

    A bizzare comment.
    And yet all the focus of recent comment on this issue is around proving whether the Gardai or the Hayes family were right or wrong. There's no focus on 1) holding the Hayes family even the least bit accountable for what they did (one of the few undisputed facts in all this is their own behaviour and actions), or 2) finding out who killed the other child.

    I think that's very telling, myself.
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  6. #26
    Ryan Tubbs Ryan Tubbs is offline

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    I remember my mother bought Joanne Hayes' book when it was published. I was 13 or 14 at the time but I remember reading the book and being very troubled by her account of hers and her family's actions. Must try to get my hands on it again
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  7. #27
    SayItAintSo SayItAintSo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I only recently became familiar with the case. Truly bizarre stuff. I wonder what he would say if they did indeed carry out the tests and this absurd theory was proved false.
    Sticking to this ridiculous theory is the only way the gardaí can explain away statements made by her family under questioning by the murder squad.
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  8. #28
    Levellers Levellers is offline

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    I used to drink in a pub that DSgt PJ Browne drank in. Beside the fact that he was always drunk and was an aggressive bully his accounts of his 'successes' were fanciful to say the least.

    When he was in full flight my cousin always raised the Kerry babies case to rile him and he always got nasty over it but stuck to idiotic position propounded by Gerry O'Carroll.
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  9. #29
    Expose the lot of them Expose the lot of them is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I only recently became familiar with the case. Truly bizarre stuff. I wonder what he would say if they did indeed carry out the tests and this absurd theory was proved false.
    Nell McCafferty wrote a book about it, "A woman to blame", I strongly recommend it, gives a insight into the backward, church ridden Ireland at the time and highlights the appalling treatment meted out to that young woman and her family.
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  10. #30
    Expose the lot of them Expose the lot of them is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Tubbs View Post
    While I agree, the whole thing was an unbelievable mess, and the Gardai handled the whole thing disgracefully, and some of the evidence at the tribunal was like stuff from Father Ted, you have to bear the circumstances in mind:

    1) Two newborn babies were found murdered within days of each other, within 60 miles of each other. This was a simply unbelievable occurrence which presented itself to local Gardai. Imagine if they happened today.
    2) The behaviour of Joanne Hayes herself herself was quite strange, which was perhaps understandable in the circumstances, but can't be ignored.
    3) Ditto her family.

    In view of this, it's perhaps going OTT to completely and utterly condemn the Gardai for dealing with what was a crazy situation.
    Not so, one baby's body was found on the beach, the Garda investigation was driven by a search for a woman who had been known to be pregnant and was no longer pregnant but who did not have a child. Joanne Hayes fitted this profile so they decided to make her the main suspect. It was only during the interrogation that she told them about her own baby and the circumstances surrounding the birth. Initially they refused to believe her or to go to the location where she told them they would find the body. When Joanne's baby's body was eventually found, they now had two babies and only one person to pin both on. Hence the lunatic theory of the two fathers, a piece of maddeness that they continue to cling to.

    Am on the phone at present, I will post n more detail when I get back to the laptop.
    Last edited by Expose the lot of them; 15th April 2014 at 07:05 PM.
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