UK Admit immigraton figures are wrong. Are we wrong too?

[LTGuy]

"One of the highest" - but still below 2.1 - replacement level. Being "the best out of the worst" is a pyrrhic consolation.

"Let me in" - are you dreaming or what? I have never worked in Ireland, and do not plan to do so in the nearest future. Could you please expand on your logic as it seems skimpy to me.

p.s. And by the way, hearing this from an economic migrant from abroad adds special tragicomical twist to the absurd accusation above

[hiker]

I'm not sure what the issue is as what the claim is that there are now 1 million foreigners in the UK labour market paying tax.

Odd how this little fact of life and economics is quitely overlooked by posters.
Have'nt seen a single reply to this little gem yet.

[JCSkinner]

"One of the highest" - but still below 2.1 - replacement level. Being "the best out of the worst" is a pyrrhic consolation.

Not at all. There is no inherent benefit to a constantly growing population. Furthermore, maintaining a population level does not require an open door immigration policy.

"Let me in" - are you dreaming or what? I have never worked in Ireland, and do not plan to do so in the nearest future. Could you please expand on your logic as it seems skimpy to me.

Frankly, your yarn about being a Lithuanian gaeilgeoir who lives in the Baltic states and has no desire to come to the only place on the planet where anyone speaks a language he has learnt is unlikely to say the least.
Either you're not Lithuanian, or you're not in the Baltic States. If you're not here, then I am delighted to hear it.

p.s. And by the way, hearing this from an economic migrant from abroad adds special tragicomical twist to the absurd accusation above

This remains gibberish. Perhaps you could clarify what or who you're talking about.

[JCSkinner]

I'm not sure what the issue is as what the claim is that there are now 1 million foreigners in the UK labour market paying tax.

Odd how this little fact of life and economics is quitely overlooked by posters.
Have'nt seen a single reply to this little gem yet.

Not overlooking it, but I am wondering about its relevance as a solo statistic. It would appear more relevant considered in its relevant context.
In other words, does the tax take exceed the welfare outlay on non-indigenous nationals?
What is the size and scale of the black economy among immigrants (and don't say it doesn't exist - from cockle pickers to sex workers to meat packers across the UK, it's massive)?
What is the exchequer drain of providing free health care, schooling, and other state provisions to non-indigenous nationals, etc?

[LTGuy]

Not at all. There is no inherent benefit to a constantly growing population. Furthermore, maintaining a population level does not require an open door immigration policy.

If population is shrinking, then pension system (and health care) based on pay-as-you-go goes bust. Simple as that. It is sad some people have no understanding of public service provision dynamics.

Frankly, your yarn about being a Lithuanian gaeilgeoir who lives in the Baltic states and has no desire to come to the only place on the planet where anyone speaks a language he has learnt is unlikely to say the least.

Well, not being economic migrant like you and being well paid I have much broader choice of places to live and work. I have been to Ireland on many occasions, true, but as a visitor. I have seen enough not to want to move to Ireland, furthermore, being interested in language and culture - Ireland is rather poor value for money. I have TG4 over internet, and chances of having someone to talk to in Irish in Vilnius and Dublin are roughly the same.

Either you're not Lithuanian, or you're not in the Baltic States.

If you are so obsessed about this - you can always contact David to get my IP address reading - for your own satisfaction.

If you're not here, then I am delighted to hear it.

My choice of not moving to Ireland is not based on the fact if you were delighted or not.

who you're talking about.

You - you moved from NI, didn't you? Typical economic migrant fleeing the choked and strangled economy of the north for the plenties and abundance of the Celtic tiger. Not very different from the famous Polish plumber - you should agree.

[hiker]

I'm not sure what the issue is as what the claim is that there are now 1 million foreigners in the UK labour market paying tax.

Odd how this little fact of life and economics is quitely overlooked by posters.
Have'nt seen a single reply to this little gem yet.

Not overlooking it, but I am wondering about its relevance as a solo statistic. It would appear more relevant considered in its relevant context.
In other words, does the tax take exceed the welfare outlay on non-indigenous nationals?
What is the size and scale of the black economy among immigrants (and don't say it doesn't exist - from cockle pickers to sex workers to meat packers across the UK, it's massive)?
What is the exchequer drain of providing free health care, schooling, and other state provisions to non-indigenous nationals, etc?

I would agree. The context is important because it moves the arguement away from, "How many are in UK?" to "Is the net gain greater than the net spend?".
And so on, the discussion follows the route of "well if we are gaining financially, can we encourage more?" or possably "If we are losing financially how do we tax them better?"

UK is part of the EU with free movement of people. They, the Swedes and ourselves signed up more than most and its no coincedence that those three economies have done better than most in the last 5 years.

The Germans have now moved their free labour date from 2011 to 2009. They know they are missing out on the bonanza big time. And when the Germans. French, Spanish and Italians open up, most of our young immigrant population will just go with the flow.
Unlike the Morrocan and Algerian "guest-workers" of the 70's and 80's, they will not stay.

[LTGuy]

Eh... recte - Spanish and Italians have opened up already, French - partially.

Important thing to understand - this wave of migration is qualitatively different from anything the world has seen before. Usually emigrants are fleeing starvation, war, destitution, and there is no way back - as migrants have (founded) fear that once back they might not succeed in getting out again.

Now CEE is booming, salaries are growing by 20-30% and catching up is happening much faster than many people realize. Portugal, Greece and increasingly Italy are bleeding the new migrants as it does not make sense financially to work there.

Furthermore, with cheap flights and freedom of movement people are not afraid of going to the home country as they easily go back to host country. I am convinced over half of new arrivals will disappear from Ireland in 5-10 years' time. I have a lot of anecdotal evidence of construction workers (Lithuanians) coming back.

[JCSkinner]

Not at all. There is no inherent benefit to a constantly growing population. Furthermore, maintaining a population level does not require an open door immigration policy.

If population is shrinking, then pension system (and health care) based on pay-as-you-go goes bust. Simple as that. It is sad some people have no understanding of public service provision dynamics.

Frankly, your yarn about being a Lithuanian gaeilgeoir who lives in the Baltic states and has no desire to come to the only place on the planet where anyone speaks a language he has learnt is unlikely to say the least.

Well, not being economic migrant like you and being well paid I have much broader choice of places to live and work. I have been to Ireland on many occasions, true, but as a visitor. I have seen enough not to want to move to Ireland, furthermore, being interested in language and culture - Ireland is rather poor value for money. I have TG4 over internet, and chances of having someone to talk to in Irish in Vilnius and Dublin are roughly the same.

[quote:2apashlc]Either you're not Lithuanian, or you're not in the Baltic States.

If you are so obsessed about this - you can always contact David to get my IP address reading - for your own satisfaction.

If you're not here, then I am delighted to hear it.

My choice of not moving to Ireland is not based on the fact if you were delighted or not.

who you're talking about.

You - you moved from NI, didn't you? Typical economic migrant fleeing the choked and strangled economy of the north for the plenties and abundance of the Celtic tiger. Not very different from the famous Polish plumber - you should agree. [/quote:2apashlc]

I am under no compulsion to agree with the irregular lunacy you spout. I have in the past worked in a series of other countries which were not my own. Being Irish, obviously Ireland is not one of them, however.
Now, you appear incapable of reading a simple proposition. There is no inherent benefit to a constantly growing population per se. Secondary considerations, such as the economic concerns I have discussed with Hiker on this thread, are worth discussing, and obviously pension provision is one of those. However, just for debate purposes, a simple way to decouple the pension provision from requiring perpetual population growth is to scrap it.
Finally, I couldn't care less about your IP address, or indeed your identity. Your cover story is bogus, and your narrow range of interests on this site, as well as your methodology of argument, marks you out as a troll, and that's all I need to know.

[Pidge]

Is he right about you moving from NI to the Republic?

[LTGuy]

Pidge - that is the point. Skinner levelled a lot of ************************e on me, with unfounded accusation regarding my ethnicity but he could not REFUTE the main bone of contention - the sad truth he is an economic migrant on par with Polish plumber. Therefore, all his waffle re "tidal wave of immigrants" smacks of bigotry and hypocrisy.