University education, breadth or depth, today's IT

[jerryp]

New president of UL raises some interesting points.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/educat ... 51103.html

Not having had the privilege of a 3rd level education, I would like to hear what our academic stalwarts here think of what he says.

[Ronanr]

A synopsis please, jerryp, for us non-subscribers to Ireland.com

[johnfás]

Undergraduate programmes at our universities should provide considerable breadth and some depth. We've got it the wrong way round, writes University of Limerick president Don Barry .

We need to focus on the role of the undergraduate curriculum in meeting the needs of our students, our citizens and our economy in the 21st century - in a new and fast changing world, a world whose future continues to become more rather than less unpredictable.

Undergraduate curricula at the leading US universities today are based on the twin notions of distribution and concentration, a compromise between the theories of the European pioneers in university education...

Yale University epitomises this system and is consistently rated among the top five universities in the US. I know it well from my time there as a PhD student, faculty-member and visiting professor. As stated in its prospectus, Yale "does not primarily train students in the particulars of a given career" but, instead, "its main goal is to instil in students the development of skills that they can bring to bear in whatever work they eventually choose".

Breadth of learning is achieved by requiring students to take at least one course in foreign languages and at least two courses from each of the following domains: arts and humanities; sciences; social sciences; quantitative reasoning and writing skills. Thus, at least 11 out of 36 courses in undergraduate programmes facilitate breadth of enquiry, understanding and knowledge. Depth is achieved by requiring students to select a major from among more than 70 available options, typically 12 courses in a single discipline taken predominantly in the final two years.

In Ireland we often sacrifice breadth for depth and nowhere in Ireland is there an undergraduate programme with the breadth of experience encountered by students in the most sought-after undergraduate programmes in the US. And the extent of specialisation at undergraduate level is greater now than it was back in the 1970s.

[Ronanr]

That is probably easier to achieve in the US where i think most primary degrees are four years instead of three.

[geraghd]

Its something I've always thought critical to a university education. That being an ability to pick a very broad base of subjects (especially in first year for example as not many know what they would like to study and could possibly pick say History, Politics, Biology and Psychology for eg) and then specialise in one subject as a major in their final and fourth year for example Microbiology or International Relations.

This would go some way to solving the problem of high drop out rates particularly among the IT and Engineering programmes.

And some universities are actually introducing an element of modularisation to all their courses. Take UCD with its Horizons initiative or TCD with its Broad Curriculum programme.

[geraghd]

That is probably easier to achieve in the US where i think most primary degrees are four years instead of three.

No undergraduate degree should be three years in fairness. Why colleges and universities still have them is beyond me.

[The Hard Left]

Medicine: A heavily intricate professional : Depth

IT: a constantly changing field : breadth

And a sliding scale in between.

Employers though, are generally looking for a specific ability from a qualification.

How 'rounded' a person is, is impossible to tell from a qualification,

Employers are wise to the fact that many exams in the 'softer subjects' (business etc) can be passed by 'rote learning.'

And as everyone knows you can have all the degrees in the world, and no common sense.

[ibis]

Its something I've always thought critical to a university education. That being an ability to pick a very broad base of subjects (especially in first year for example as not many know what they would like to study and could possibly pick say History, Politics, Biology and Psychology for eg) and then specialise in one subject as a major in their final and fourth year for example Microbiology or International Relations.

This would go some way to solving the problem of high drop out rates particularly among the IT and Engineering programmes.

And some universities are actually introducing an element of modularisation to all their courses. Take UCD with its Horizons initiative or TCD with its Broad Curriculum programme.

It was possible even 20 years ago to pick modules that were entirely outside your faculty, since the courses were modularised even then. You had to argue your case pretty hard, though.

That is probably easier to achieve in the US where i think most primary degrees are four years instead of three.

Virtually every Irish degree is 4 years.

[draiocht23]

I took a broad biological and chemical science degree and I ended up getting physiology in third year (wanted to do psychology but only ten places in the BSc course were available, and I didn't make the cut unfortunately) and hated it.

I think it would be good to have a possible mix of arts and science, but I don't know how feasible this is. Also, if things are too broad, don't you just end up knowing a little about a lot?

It's tough on students also. Trying to figure out what you want to do for the rest of your life when you are 17/18 is pretty daunting. Especially as you choose courses before you get your leaving cert results.

[geraghd]

Medicine: A heavily intricate professional : Depth

IT: a constantly changing field : breadth

And a sliding scale in between.

Employers though, are generally looking for a specific ability from a qualification.
How 'rounded' a person is, is impossible to tell from a qualification,

Employers are wise to the fact that many exams in the 'softer subjects' (business etc) can be passed by 'rote learning.'

And as everyone knows you can have all the degrees in the world, and no common sense.

By ability I take you mean competence within a field? That would be got from specialisation in later years (or 'majoring' if you will).
And not sure what you are getting at with your Medicine IT thingy there..