Originally Posted by DaveM

I voted for Maastricht so they'd legalise abortion.

I voted for Amsterdam so so they'd legalise abortion.

I voted for Nice so so they'd legalise abortion. Twice.

I voted for Lisbon so so they'd legalise abortion. Twice.

When the hell are the pro-lifers going to stop lying to me???

Do you have a thing about having babies killed?
There were far more issues involved in these referenda than just abortion

Originally Posted by SusanD

How is this government anti-catholic? Just because they are not openly pursuing a catholic agenda does not make them anti-catholic. And using this as your deciding factor for how to vote in the Fiscal Treaty Referendum is just plain stupid, considering how important the economic issues are. They are irrelevant I suppose as long as the pro-life agenda can be dragged into it. Sometimes I despair for democracy, if this is the level of discussion.

The Labour party are pro abortion.
They also want to destroy denominational catholic education.

The FG party have attacked the catholic sacrament of confession and the Vatican.

Both govt parties allow the states tax funded tv and radio station to pursue an open policy of anti catholocism [already they have seriously libeled catholic priests.]

I said many catholics will understandably use this referendum to deny the government permission to ratify this treaty in order to teach them a lesson.

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Also let's not forget that David Quinn is head of the Iona Institute, a catholic think tank as far as know and the Catholic Church is getting a lot of bad press at the moment about silencing priests. Anyone notice an attempt at distracting attention form this sad situation, or is it just me????

Originally Posted by SusanD

Also let's not forget that David Quinn is head of the Iona Institute, a catholic think tank as far as know and the Catholic Church is getting a lot of bad press at the moment about silencing priests. Anyone notice an attempt at distracting attention form this sad situation, or is it just me????

You dont have to even be a catholic to see that the Irish govt has an anti catholic agenda.

This referendum is a great opportunity to these self interested politicians a much needed slap.

See Kenny is now climbing Croagh Patrick to drum up the catholic vote.

"Self interested" is of course an adjective one could NEVER apply to the catholic church. Do I hear a pot callling? And who says there is a "catholic vote"? Post evidence, please.

If you're an arachnophobe, a bit of fluff on the floor can cause you to run from the room screaming.

In this case, the spider is anything even vaguely non-Catholic.

P.

Originally Posted by The Field Marshal

Quinn is making the perfectly valid point that the current Irish governments policies of anti catholocism is driving many catholics to try and fight back by refusing to give such a government permission to ratify this treaty at this point in time.

It matters not a whit whats in the treaty.

This current Irish govt having stolen money from the private pension fund have no credibility or moral authority on any matter whatever.

I am Catholic, but I do not think that it warrants opposing the treaty because of issues completely irrelevant to the treaty. I mean, I am a conservative Catholic myself, as are my whole family, but NONE of them are rejecting the treaty(actually, I'm not sure if they are rejecting it, full stop) because of Catholic morality issues. Save that for the Abortion Referendums.

Originally Posted by SusanD

How is this government anti-catholic? Just because they are not openly pursuing a catholic agenda does not make them anti-catholic. And using this as your deciding factor for how to vote in the Fiscal Treaty Referendum is just plain stupid, considering how important the economic issues are. They are irrelevant I suppose as long as the pro-life agenda can be dragged into it. Sometimes I despair for democracy, if this is the level of discussion.

vatican embassy... maybe

Originally Posted by SusanD

"Self interested" is of course an adjective one could NEVER apply to the catholic church. Do I hear a pot callling? And who says there is a "catholic vote"? Post evidence, please.

Maybe the 84% that claims to be Catholics and the 40-45% that goes to mass weekly? The only places in Europe with a bigger Catholic constituency than Ireland are Malta and Poland. The Catholics, and the Devout Catholics, are still around, and will be for as long as this state exists.

May be slightly off topic, but does anyone know what happened John Cooney, he used write on religious affairs also for Indo, but i have not seen him there for ages. He was a reasonable type of guy, who was not ashamed to call a spade a spade as regards abuse of kids by priests.