Phil Hogan to scrap all Town Councils. Number of County Councils to be reduced.

[Passer-by]

Our stab at devolved government was the lunacy of decentralisation.

Moving highly-centralised government departments from one location to another is NOT "decentralisation" - it is relocation.

Decentralisation is taking government services from the centre and giving/forcing them onto local government to do.

After that it is then (almost exclusively) between the local government and the citizens of the locality as to what services are delivered and where and how they are funded (with most funding, bar a "top-up" coming from the locality). Under such a system, if local government in an area fails to deliver, then it is a local matter - it is not a matter for central government to get involved with (except in extremis comparable to the Troika being here).

Many town councils do little useful and are hardly a vindication of local government. As already posted, this, when it happens will not take place overnight and there will be plenty of time for input into proper local government.

Given the state of our finances & wider economy, the "usefulness" of our central government has to be really called into question. That doesn't mean though we should propose abolishing it rather it - like local government - has to be made "fit for purpose" and one of the more important things to do that is for central government to stop doing tasks that could be performed by local government and indeed almost invariably are in better run countries.

[Bandheacseoir]

Untrue. County borders have been continuously tweaked and changed for many years. Only a few years ago bits of Meath were given to Louth due to Drogheda's expansion into the royal county. Likewise Limerick has gained at the expense of Clare due to the expansion of the city.

And not forgetting Dublin county was completely abolished in 1994 and replaced with three counties.

The 32 traditional counties arn't the same as the 29 administrativ counties (or county councils).
The former exist mostly as cultural and sporting counties and their borders ar fix'd.
The latter ar districts uzed for administration and the government can shift their borders at any time.

If the government merges Cork County Council and Kerry County Council, that doesn't mean Co Cork and Co Kerry no longer exist. They'll still exist as traditional counties.

[cllr]

Im not sure I would agree with your proposal to retain the four Dublin local authorities, along with their mayors, in addition to a beefed up, elected mayoral led Dublin Regional Authority.

I feel it would be far more efficient and simpler to merge the four authorities into one county wide Dublin City Council, along with dissolving the Dublin Regional Authority.

Then provide for the direct election of the Lord Mayor of Dublin. No need for 4 Dublin sub mayors and a county wide super mayor.

Do this for other 25 counties of Ireland. Make them unitary authorities, abolish the city/county managers and have directly elected county mayors.

What I am actually proposing is that we would establish the Regional approach and use the five year period of that term i.e 2014-2019 to rationalise the four councils into more appropriate structures. If it can be done rationally and more speedily i would favour but I do not want to see a rushed approach that is solely based on the current financial mess that long term will not make sense.

[sic transit]

Moving highly-centralised government departments from one location to another is NOT "decentralisation" - it is relocation.

Decentralisation is taking government services from the centre and giving/forcing them onto local government to do.

After that it is then (almost exclusively) between the local government and the citizens of the locality as to what services are delivered and where and how they are funded (with most funding, bar a "top-up" coming from the locality). Under such a system, if local government in an area fails to deliver, then it is a local matter - it is not a matter for central government to get involved with (except in extremis comparable to the Troika being here).



Given the state of our finances & wider economy, the "usefulness" of our central government has to be really called into question. That doesn't mean though we should propose abolishing it rather it - like local government - has to be made "fit for purpose" and one of the more important things to do that is for central government to stop doing tasks that could be performed by local government and indeed almost invariably are in better run countries.

Using bad central government as an example hardly validates the argument for local government. Having a council for the sake of it is not democracy any more than every town having a hospital is an essential part of the health system. Town councils are toothless and really offer nothing useful. They also tend to attract the same type of brass-necked yokels we all decry.

Incidentally I wouldn't look to greener pastures. Well-run countries have their flaws. They too have councils full of self-important gombeens who will go off on a whim. The only real difference is that they are limited in the type of damage they can do.

Scrapping them makes sense in the same way as digging up 100 year old water pipes. There is no way to make them fit for purpose without removing the canker first. Moving whatever services they think they provide to CC level is still local government.

[Watcher2]

According to The Irish Daily Mail on Sunday Minister Phil Hogan is set to undertake a "radical reform of the local authority system" which will lead to the closure of all 80 town councils. There are currently 774 councillors serving on TC's.

Minister Hogan will also amalgamate some County Councils. The reforms will lead to savings worth hundreds of millions to the exchequer according to the story.

This is why I voted for FG. The local authority system has been a financial black hole for many years and has been crying out for reform. It would have been politically expedient for FG (the most dominant party in local government) to continue with the current system. I'm not sure FF would have undertook these reforms under the same circumstances.

There's no link available to the story.

Will this reform take the form of a knife and slash the councils and waste which will end up with mass redundancies and councillors not having their easy ride, or will this simply be a rebranding exercise where nothing of true worth and reform materialises. For instance, will the Town Council in X be completely done away with and the county council taking over responsibility for that town without taking on "additional resources" such as the employees of that said town council?

I'll be interested to see e4xactly what is proposed by mr hogan.

[Earnest]

I'm not sure what extra powers Dublin would be entitled to over Leitrim. Apart from transport (Dublin Bus, Luas, DART, maybe the airport) there isn't much else Dublin would get responsibility for over Leitrim.

Well, the transport responsibilities that you suggest would be a start. But there is also the question of expert staff. A large authority can have more specialised staff and pay them appropriately. Also, since you couldn't reasonably have more than, say, 100 councillors in Dublin each one must represent 12706 people, which means power passes effectively to the bureaucrats; while in Leitrim since you couldn't reasonably have less than 10 councillors, each could represent 3177 people and be more responsive.

Just because other countries have two tier local government doesn't mean Ireland should automatically do the same. Scotland,with a larger population than us, has a single tier of 32 local authorities that works fairly well for them.

But in Scotland, if you exclude the two large cities (which could not reasonably be divided) and the islands areas (which could not reasonably be amalgamated with anything else), the population range is from Clackmannanshire (50,600) to Fife (365,000). They gave up their old counties for a short-lived two-tier system, and when they went over to unitary authorities they did not resurrect the old counties.

[Will Yam]

According to The Irish Daily Mail on Sunday Minister Phil Hogan is set to undertake a "radical reform of the local authority system" which will lead to the closure of all 80 town councils. There are currently 774 councillors serving on TC's.

Minister Hogan will also amalgamate some County Councils. The reforms will lead to savings worth hundreds of millions to the exchequer according to the story.

This is why I voted for FG. The local authority system has been a financial black hole for many years and has been crying out for reform. It would have been politically expedient for FG (the most dominant party in local government) to continue with the current system. I'm not sure FF would have undertook these reforms under the same circumstances.

There's no link available to the story.

If this "reform" is like all the other "reforms" we may well end up with less councils. However you can bet your bottom dollar it will not result in less councillors, and it certainly won't result in less staff.

[Chrisco]

The 32 traditional counties arn't the same as the 29 administrativ counties (or county councils).
The former exist mostly as cultural and sporting counties and their borders ar fix'd.
The latter ar districts uzed for administration and the government can shift their borders at any time.

If the government merges Cork County Council and Kerry County Council, that doesn't mean Co Cork and Co Kerry no longer exist. They'll still exist as traditional counties.

Look at the North. The administrative counties were abolished 40 years ago. I am fairly certain it can't be said that the inhabitants of Tyrone couldn't tell you what county they were from...

The county based parochialism of the South is part of the failure of its system of governance. By all means make sure your local parish/town is getting a good deal, but Irish voters too often sacrifice their interests in something 'over the border' in another county for the sake of idiots at the other end of their own.

[Cork]

How many local authoritys are needed?

Less than 10 in my openion.

How many is govt purposing?