Ireland's Squeezed Middle: The Irish Times.

[wombat]

There is a serious lack of perspective, a near complete failure to recognise that the icing may be gone from the cake, but that the cake is still very much there.

I think that is a very fair description of our present condition.

[Expose the lot of them]

Defining "middle class" is an interesting if fraught undertaking, as it throws up all manner of petty snobberies, social insecurities and so on, which people prefer to steer away from in these more "egalitarian" (ha!) times.

Being middle class used to be defined by heredity and education, and knowing your way round the confusing codes, mannerisms, accents, tastes of the bourgeoisie--all designed of course to flush out the pretender or arriviste.

The Tiger changed all that and caused a fearsome fluttering in the dovecotes. Plumbers were buying houses where they shouldn't have been, brickies thought they were middle class and nobody knew how to explain the situation to them.....

This snobbery was behind a lot of the faux-concern about the nouveau riche spending too much on Communions and fake tans.....
Educated middle class people desperately sought a new language to explain why they wanted a house abroad in the sun, but not near...ahem...taxi drivers and suchlike...who now could afford these houses too...and well, you know...ahem

Watching this tuppence-halfpenny-looking-down-on tuppence behaviour was one of the great blood sports of the boom, and I miss itAs regards your "coping class" definition, Eoghan Harris uses that phrase today in the Sindo, but he excludes PS workers--whom he hates---from the definition, although they used to be the backbone of the respectable lower middle class

Yes that was rather fun, however, I think you will find that the majority of the older established group of what was defined as "middle class" did not go mad, did not buy properties in Spain, the Algarve or further afield. They invested spare cash in "blue chip" bank shares and provided deposits to help their children buy their own homes. As long as their children can keep up their mortgage repayments that investment was worthwhile but what was invested in bank shares and private pensions has gone, never to be recovered. Many have lost their jobs or have seen their businesses go to the wall, those still in employment and whose businesses survive are hanging on by their fingernails.

Eoghan Harris is a vile person, who hates everyone, he has the public sector in his sights at present but don't worry that will change.

The problem with many public sector workers is that they fail to accept that private sector workers have also experienced pay cuts, often the ultimate paycut of joblessness, many have never had access to a pension scheme and those who have have seen these pension funds decimated. Those who remain in employment have no job security, even those employed by foreign multinationals have little security as these companies are transient have historically moved to cheaper locations.

Low pay exists in the public and private sector, the difference being that those in the public sector have job security - for now.

[Fides]

Harsh? Not a bit of it. Complaints from rich people (and the Irish middle classes are very rich by global standards) who are now a bit less rich stick in my craw.

This is poverty: Zimbabwe's Children :: Obert

Having to adopt a slightly less luxurious lifestyle is not.

And the Irish on social welfare are also very rich by global standards

The fact is for some they have lost more than the icing on the cake, they have very little income and they're hurting. It makes good newspaper copy as do stories of people with 8 children who have lost some children's allowance.

[sondagefaux]

And the Irish on social welfare are also very rich by global standards

The fact is for some they have lost more than the icing on the cake, they have very little income and they're hurting.

The UN's Human Development Index still places Ireland 7th in the list of most developed countries (and 6th when adjusted for equality) despite its current economic problems:

IRELAND HAS been ranked by the United Nations as the seventh most developed country in the world despite the economic downturn.

The latest human development index of 187 countries, compiled by the UN Development Programme, sees Ireland drop two places from last year. However, it remains in the top 10 ahead of Liechtenstein, Germany and Sweden.

When adjusted for equality, Ireland’s ranking rises to sixth place – ahead of the US, which drops in the rankings from fourth to 23rd when so adjusted.

The list is led by Norway, Australia and the Netherlands, while the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Niger and Burundi bring up the rear in terms of national achievement in health, education and average income.

Other countries which moved up the 2011 index due to greater relative equalities in health, education and income are Sweden (jumping from 10th to fifth place), Denmark (from 16th to 12th) and Slovenia (from 21st to 14th).

“The inequality-adjusted Human Development Index helps us assess better the levels of development for all segments of society, rather than for just the mythical ‘average’ person,” said UN statistician Milorad Kovacevic.

“We consider health and education distribution to be just as important in this equation as income and the data shows great inequities in many countries.”

Ireland in top 10 on human development index - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 03, 2011

A lot of people will scoff at this, but take a list of every country in the world, and compare the standard of living, quality of life, and socio-economic equality to Ireland, and Ireland will come out ahead of almost every other country in the world.

A quick tour of the world will demonstrate that there are very few countries that have a combination of living standards, quality of life and equality which is either better than Ireland's, or about the same as Ireland's:

Africa: not one country
South America/Carribean: not one country
North America: Canada, (the US is far more unequal than Ireland, with a much poorer welfare state),
Asia: Japan, South Korea, Singapore, (even the wealthy Gulf states, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, the UAE etc, are poorer on average, plus none of them are even remotely democratic, especially for women)
Rest of World: Australia and New Zealand
Europe: Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, UK, Liechtenstein, Monaco.

It makes good newspaper copy as do stories of people with 8 children who have lost some children's allowance.

Only 10.4% of children in Ireland lived in families with 4 children in 2002, and only 4.7% lived in families with 5 or more children.

The vast majority (85%) of children live in families with either 1 child (23.0%), 2 children (36.7%), or 3 children (25.3%).

Cases involving families with 8 children losing significant amounts of child benefit are vanishingly rare, which is probably why they make such good copy.

[Johnnybaii]

The UN's Human Development Index still places Ireland 7th in the list of most developed countries (and 6th when adjusted for equality) despite its current economic problems:



Ireland in top 10 on human development index - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 03, 2011

A lot of people will scoff at this, but take a list of every country in the world, and compare the standard of living, quality of life, and socio-economic equality to Ireland, and Ireland will come out ahead of almost every other country in the world.

A quick tour of the world will demonstrate that there are very few countries that have a combination of living standards, quality of life and equality which is either better than Ireland's, or about the same as Ireland's:

Africa: not one country
South America/Carribean: not one country
North America: Canada, (the US is far more unequal than Ireland, with a much poorer welfare state),
Asia: Japan, South Korea, Singapore, (even the wealthy Gulf states, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, the UAE etc, are poorer on average, plus none of them are even remotely democratic, especially for women)
Rest of World: Australia and New Zealand
Europe: Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, UK, Liechtenstein, Monaco.



Only 10.4% of children in Ireland lived in families with 4 children in 2002, and only 4.7% lived in families with 5 or more children.

The vast majority (85%) of children live in families with either 1 child (23.0%), 2 children (36.7%), or 3 children (25.3%).

Cases involving families with 8 children losing significant amounts of child benefit are vanishingly rare, which is probably why they make such good copy.

Considering we are running a 20 bill deficit in order to maintain those standards our position in the HDI will be rather short-lived.

[Ceist]

I hear on the news tonight that the first mortgage to rent contract has gone through. Couple who cannot afford a GE mortgage are changing to be tenants of a housing association which has taken over the house from GE. Rent to be subsidised by Govt and GE write off part of mortgage.
Do not have a problem with homes in ordinary middle/working class areas going into such a process. But why am I and the rest of the taxpaying public being stung for more funds for this? Why does GE need our money?

If one of the banks we have so lavishly bailed out, including allowances for large mortgage write-offs offloads a property under this scheme, will they return part of the bailout capital to the Government in return for the interest subsidy which enables them to be rid of an asset they could not sell and which would cost them thousands to manage and maintain?

I am not holding my breath on this one, but when will the middle taxpayers who may or may not have their own mortgages to pay be able to STOP paying more money into the hole that is the banks....

[markcolenn]

Lets encourage entrepeneurs not knock them.

Lets support entrepeneurs not let them hang out to dry.

Every person that employs an extra employee in this environment should get extra PRSI stamps for their retirement or if the business suffers they can get some assistance.