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  1. #11
    daveL daveL is offline
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    sounds rock solid that advice

    I'd go for it
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  2. #12
    Didimus Didimus is offline

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    Fi fi fo fum I smell the blood of a .... Freeman?
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  3. #13
    Club125 Club125 is offline

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    What is the criteria for an 'unfinished' housing estate. The estate in which I live is broadly finished however has not yet been taken in charge by the local authority becuase of some minor landscaping problem. This led to a situation last winter when the residents has to pay airtricity to get the street lights fixed. In this instance the developer has fled and the Local Authority claim they can do nothing until taken in charge. However the estate is not listed as 'unfinished' on www.householdcharge.ie

    I think I will seek clarity from the Local Authority. If the estate has not been taken in charge, we are not benefiting from the services provided from the Local Authority and therefore should not be liable for the charge.
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  4. #14
    ShoutingIsLeadership ShoutingIsLeadership is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    Absolute rubbish.

    Note that it says 'consent of the Governed'. That does not mean each individual must consent, it means that as a collective, the 'Governed' consent to be Governed. That consent is delivered through an election and through the adoption of a Constitution which sets out the political and legal framework in which the 'Governed' delegate their consent to elected representatives on a regular basis.

    Quite aside from all of that, this country has had quite enough of chancers deciding that they should decide which taxes they do and do not wish to pay. This tax is legal, this tax is constitutional. It is open to any person to campaign to stop it or remove it or change it in a democratic system. But while it exists, anyone not paying it is the same as every other tax cheat and dodger that has gone before them, and have absolutely no right to moan about public services or the way in which public money is spent.

    So in short, no - a random (and wrong) explanation of how to 'legally' avoid payment doesn't change the fact that those who do not pay are breaking the law and should be punished and socially shunned in the way every other tax cheat is.

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  5. #15
    EvotingMachine0197 EvotingMachine0197 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Club125 View Post
    What is the criteria for an 'unfinished' housing estate. The estate in which I live is broadly finished however has not yet been taken in charge by the local authority becuase of some minor landscaping problem. This led to a situation last winter when the residents has to pay airtricity to get the street lights fixed. In this instance the developer has fled and the Local Authority claim they can do nothing until taken in charge. However the estate is not listed as 'unfinished' on www.householdcharge.ie

    I think I will seek clarity from the Local Authority. If the estate has not been taken in charge, we are not benefiting from the services provided from the Local Authority and therefore should not be liable for the charge.
    http://www.housing.ie/_fileupload/Es...ethodology.pdf
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  6. #16
    IrishTom IrishTom is offline

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    Statute is the lowest possible form of law, it is based on contract law, you have to contract with the government for the statute to have any lawful basis hence the reason the government is telling people to register for the property tax instead of just charging the property tax.

    You must understand the difference between Legal and lawful, if you were to argue your case against paying the property tax you would probably be best off arguing on the basis of the rules of a contract.

    Was there due consideration? Was there offer and acceptance? Mutual assent? Sufficiency?
    Both parties MUST consent.
    Both parties must intend on forming a legal relationship.

    Courts operate on assumption, ie a court will assume all of the above unless you challenge it.
    The court assumes you are the trustee, the Justice is the executor and the Government is the beneficiary.

    But under Admiralty law the judge only has authority if you contract with him and give him such authority.
    It is complicated and convoluted and that is the way it was designed so people would not question the status quo and just pay all the punitive fines that they are led to believe they owe.

    Courts operate under admiralty law, common law supersedes Admiralty law unless you contract with the Justice (Judge) once you do this you forfeit your inalienable rights under common law.

    This vid will give you the basics, but there is so much more detailed info out there, this will just give a general view.

    Dean Clifford - 1 (part 3 of 6) You, Your Rights, The Trust, Courts, Law and More - YouTube
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  7. #17
    Didimus Didimus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didimus View Post
    Fi fi fo fum I smell the blood of a .... Freeman?
    Yep I does...
    Quote Originally Posted by IrishTom View Post
    Statute is the lowest possible form of law, it is based on contract law, you have to contract with the government for the statute to have any lawful basis hence the reason the government is telling people to register for the property tax instead of just charging the property tax.

    You must understand the difference between Legal and lawful, if you were to argue your case against paying the property tax you would probably be best off arguing on the basis of the rules of a contract.

    Was there due consideration? Was there offer and acceptance? Mutual assent? Sufficiency?
    Both parties MUST consent.
    Both parties must intend on forming a legal relationship.

    Courts operate on assumption, ie a court will assume all of the above unless you challenge it.
    The court assumes you are the trustee, the Justice is the executor and the Government is the beneficiary.

    But under Admiralty law the judge only has authority if you contract with him and give him such authority.
    It is complicated and convoluted and that is the way it was designed so people would not question the status quo and just pay all the punitive fines that they are led to believe they owe.

    Courts operate under admiralty law, common law supersedes Admiralty law unless you contract with the Justice (Judge) once you do this you forfeit your inalienable rights under common law.

    This vid will give you the basics, but there is so much more detailed info out there, this will just give a general view.

    Dean Clifford - 1 (part 3 of 6) You, Your Rights, The Trust, Courts, Law and More - YouTube
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  8. #18
    IrishTom IrishTom is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    Absolute rubbish.

    Note that it says 'consent of the Governed'. That does not mean each individual must consent, it means that as a collective, the 'Governed' consent to be Governed. That consent is delivered through an election and through the adoption of a Constitution which sets out the political and legal framework in which the 'Governed' delegate their consent to elected representatives on a regular basis.

    Quite aside from all of that, this country has had quite enough of chancers deciding that they should decide which taxes they do and do not wish to pay. This tax is legal, this tax is constitutional. It is open to any person to campaign to stop it or remove it or change it in a democratic system. But while it exists, anyone not paying it is the same as every other tax cheat and dodger that has gone before them, and have absolutely no right to moan about public services or the way in which public money is spent.

    So in short, no - a random (and wrong) explanation of how to 'legally' avoid payment doesn't change the fact that those who do not pay are breaking the law and should be punished and socially shunned in the way every other tax cheat is.
    Let me guess, you're one of the leeches who earns his living by suckling off the teethe of the collective tax payer?
    First law of survival is self preservation and you fit that bill perfectly.
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  9. #19
    Club125 Club125 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvotingMachine0197 View Post
    Thanks for that - however it seems in our unjust society the residents will continue to fork out the 200 eur annual charge for our street lights to be maintained. Fingers crossed the sewer doesn't block up either as any charge associated with this would also fall back upon us. But in the meantime we must also pay the 'service' charge for no service!
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  10. #20
    teapot teapot is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default Now View Post
    Just seen this in Broadsheet: Household Charge – how to LEGALLY avoid paying it Ireland on it's knees

    "This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register. Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever."

    Any legal advise?
    This would mean that if one didn't CONSENT to a law which makes burglary a crime, then one could travel round the country breaking into residences??? Surely laws are held to be for the good of everyone (or the majority, trolls) and are passed by a Government or Legislature after good and proper debate, for that very reason? That is, if you elect the Government and they pass laws, you are supposed to abide by them - no matter that you disagree with the law, or the Government who passed it. Have an election and get the un-liked law changed, is the answer. Trouble here is - this is not a criminal matter,(like burglary) but is seen as a hole-in-the-corner subterfuge to pay off the banksters' gambling debts by a defective Government who don't know what to do, and who inherited this shlthole of a mess from the idiots who are now criticising everything. So it is extremely touchy - burglary law is easy
    - only burglars like burglary, the rest of us object... But the €100 euro charge?
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